Quote from: Dee_pntx on November 15, 2010, 04:15:07 PM
Are you kidding me?  Overly dramatic?

They f**king handled her breasts and vagina and felt up her labia !!!

If that's not a sexual assault I'd like to know WTF it is...........

And what happens to me when I go to California in three months, I have LARGE breasts now and sadly, male type genitals down below.  They are small but when felt up like these thugs do, they will be able to feel that they aren't female parts!

And on the way back, they are going to grope my vagina that is probably going to be very, very tender and in rough shape after SRS.  That's hard core surgery.  Ever seen it done?  Ever seen a freshly finished vag?  If they damage me I'll smash someone in the head.

Will you be able to pad yourself out with dressings or sanitary protection? On both the outbound and inbound journeys? If the staff think that you're having your period, they won't want to spend too long handling your groin.

Quote from: Dee_pntx on November 15, 2010, 04:40:40 PM
Apparently you did NOT read the words of the woman herself that had her labia felt up.   

I did read her account. She was not felt up, she had a pat down security search performed on her. She grossly over exaggerated. If the prospect of flying is that awful then people would make sure they used other forms of travel.

I always enjoy reading your posts, I imagine you with red hair sticking up and muttering under your breath 

...American officials are maniacs, and our prime minister just LOVES how Americans do everything. So we have those useless porn scanners as well. And from the pictures I have seen on the news, the scan are very revealing. What I heard though is that only one employee sees the actual image, at least.

They are making too much of a deal of these terrorists. It's like they started searching every school bag for guns to prevent crazy shooter incidents in universities.

Quote from: JohnR on November 15, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
I did read her account. She was not felt up, she had a pat down security search performed on her. She grossly over exaggerated. If the prospect of flying is that awful then people would make sure they used other forms of travel.

I always enjoy reading your posts, I imagine you with red hair sticking up and muttering under your breath 

Oh riiight... and you know this how?

Ok, take a deep breath folks ...

Can't we all just get along?

TSA sucks.  Even on their best most competent day they are incompetent and all of that 'security' stuff does nothing for real security.

Dee, the story you posted is only worrisome if the woman conducting the search came into contact with the woman's bare genitals or breasts. The patdown of her breasts is entirely standard, I've seen it happen before - I'm not sure about the crotch area, but if it was just through jeans I don't see a problem. Besides, patdowns are nothing new, and truthfully a patdown is inefficient if these areas are not covered. Unless you could specify how the "sexual molestation" procedures differ from the old procedures?

On the other hand, those scanners make me twitchy, and the fact that genitals are shown in such detail definitely strikes me as an invasion of privacy. Now, when I wasn't transitioning it wouldn't have bothered me as much, as I wasn't at all guarded about my body, but going through one of those with male name and gender marker, and having it be clear there's no penis down there, would raise way too many questions.

^ they usually slide the hand up the inner thigh, quite close or maybe slightly touching the crotch.

But cupping their hand from front or back over the whole genital area is pretty gruesome or parting 'things' with their fingers  . Honestly, is that really necessary?

Has there been anyone yet caught with bombs or plastic explosive dynamite between their testicles or in their vag area?
Idk, it seems like overkill to me and too many people getting their jollies from innocent travelers.

I bet they had people lining up for hours to apply for that job.      

When they get close to your private parts yell "Spit in my mouth and call me a 'dirty whore' now."  That will back them up a couple of feet. 

Nikolai - have you ever been raped or sexually assaulted? Are you close to anyone who's a survivor of rape or sexual assault?

These procedures - handling of the breasts and genitalia - are seriously problematic. They're even more problematic because people cannot withdraw their consent. It's illegal to leave the screening area once you've begun the screening procedure. The "patdown" is the fallback screening method if any other method fails or is refused. Once you've been sent for a "patdown," you will be groped, whether you like it or not, under penalty of law. The combination of intimate touch with powerlessness and lack of control is abuse, it is assault, it is severely traumatic especially for rape and abuse survivors. Please don't minimize it.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on November 15, 2010, 10:36:26 PM
Dee, the story you posted is only worrisome if the woman conducting the search came into contact with the woman's bare genitals or breasts. The patdown of her breasts is entirely standard, I've seen it happen before - I'm not sure about the crotch area, but if it was just through jeans I don't see a problem. Besides, patdowns are nothing new, and truthfully a patdown is inefficient if these areas are not covered. Unless you could specify how the "sexual molestation" procedures differ from the old procedures?

On the other hand, those scanners make me twitchy, and the fact that genitals are shown in such detail definitely strikes me as an invasion of privacy. Now, when I wasn't transitioning it wouldn't have bothered me as much, as I wasn't at all guarded about my body, but going through one of those with male name and gender marker, and having it be clear there's no penis down there, would raise way too many questions.

Reason and common sense aren't helpful in this thread, it gets in the way of the hysteria and outrage.

Dee.

Just how much of your personal freedom are you prepared to sacrifice?

A terrorist can hide explosives in his rectum. Given that the small qualtity that was, apparently, in the shoe, or the underwear, this could quite easily be hidden in someone's rectum. A pat down, no matter how invasive, isn't going to show that up.

These people don't suceed simply because they have no need to. Their objective has been achieved.

The terrorists won. They won in 2001. American lost. It just doesn't know it yet.

They cannot find explosives in rectums ? Surprising... How do they find drugs in condoms that people ate then ? : o

Quote from: A on November 16, 2010, 12:12:56 PM
They cannot find explosives in rectums ? Surprising... How do they find drugs in condoms that people ate then ? : o

They most certainly can. But it will mean that, including all the touching associated with a pat down, people will need to submit to a rectal examination.

The objective is clearly to be caught, as evidenced by the two characters who have been.

I just wonder how far this nonsense will be taken?

I didn't see anything in the story about the woman's vagina being parted or groped, just touched. "Both my labias" could suggest this, but to me it looked like her way of confirming it wasn't just a brush against her crotch, the inspector's hand came into full contact with it. I think you're interpreting it differently, Hermione, but nothing there explicitly said anything was spread or otherwise invaded, just touched.

My mother worked for years at a battered women's shelter, and dealt daily with survivors of spousal abuse, rape, and sexual abuse. So I am well familiar with what constitutes sexual assault, and in no way mean to downplay the trauma that survivors or actual sexual assault experience. And yes, patdown of intimate areas would certainly be a triggering experience for survivors of this abuse, and they should not be forced to endure it. But I would also think that survivors of rape would be unwilling to give their consent to a strange coming into contact with most of their body to begin with, touched genitals aside. The problem here seems to be informing people as to what a patdown involves. That can be easily solved.

I will continue to use logic and common sense even if it's unhelpful. Reason is the driving force behind my perspective, and different perspectives are necessary to fully analyse and come to an informed conclusion about issues. Otherwise the world would be in chaos.

This is the US we are talking about. The true question is, "How far will it not go ?"

Quote from: Octavianus on November 14, 2010, 10:29:39 PM
I am afraid I cannot tell you anything about the scanners they use in the USA because I have never flown there. On Schiphol in The Netherlands personell uses a bodyscanner (Security prefers to call it a "Security Scanner")  which guarantees the privacy of the person checked. The output of the machine is a standard cartoon figure on which the detected objects are indicated with yellow squares:

Unlike in the USA images are not stored. A thing I am not really comfortable is the fact that it uses radiowaves because I do not know the health impact. From what I have been told it is far less than the cosmic radiation you pick up at high altitude in an aircraft.

The best solution to the problem is to change the display to some thing the Netherlands have .. I know its only a matter of tweaking the software or simply buying it and updating it...

I would find both procedures to be a nightmare ... and having been molested at school this would bring back very painful memories (knowing martial arts doesn't help with the teacher in front being oblivious to the fact that you are being molested from under the desk by another student)... nor do I like the thought of someone staring at my naked pics on a screen while recording it without my consent comforting

Is there some sort of boycott movement for this?  Personally, I won't be flying until something's done about it.  Though I know that's not practical for everyone or every situation.  But I'd rather ride on a bus for three days than get groped up or porn-scanned.

I am glad I just finished a long trip.  An airplane is about the only place I have to present as male.  I just think it is so unfair.  And now, trans guys who are packing will be in real trouble.  Will they be making girls remove wigs too?  Most likely.

I am all for keeping us safe.  But the question I have is:  Are we one bit safer for going through these scanners? 

Not hardly!

One of my friends just took a trip today... Didn't have to get groped or x-rayed... Maybe she just got really lucky.