Recently a friend of mine asked me to explain to him how exactly it feels or to try to put into words what the whole GID is like to deal with. It was really hard. My best explanation to him came back from when I was younger and I'd pass by a mirror and quickly for a few seconds my mind would be like, who the F is that? He looks oddly familiar. I sort of recognize him? It was almost like the reflection in the mirror was that of a somewhat familiar acquaintance. It would take a few seconds for me to realize, like wow, that's me. Do I really look like that? I guess since my mental image of myself really didn't match the physical (at all), and when it would happen suddenly and randomly, it would make me go hmmmm. I tried to explain to him, to imagine looking into a mirror and then not recognizing the reflection looking back at you. That was the most concise and clear explanation I could give. It's not the easiest feeling to put in to words or explain.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

Describing gender dysphoria is really, really hard. Most of the world's population has no frame of reference and thus can't really even begin to conceive what people with GID go through. Gender is practically the first decision made for someone when they come into the world. It's seen as a binary, male or female and in most cases its never in question.

One thing I've been doing lately if someone asks me, is saying... Think about your sexuality... you're probably pretty secure and certain with that. Now think of your gender. It's probably also very secure. I was never secure in my gender. 

This allows people to realize that it is nearly impossible for them to "get it".

Like many, I avoided mirrors where possible.  But the thing that was the most interesting was going to the bathroom.  I have mostly always sat when using the toilet.  And part of that was when I would look down, it was gone.  It looked so natural. 

I could not stand showering.  Bathing was much better.  Enough bubbles and nothing could be seen.

How about Pinocchio? That's kinda the same story and everyone knows it. He wanted to be a real boy so he could feel like a normal kid, or something.

I'm sure there are a lot of stories or well-known characters out there that have image or personality issues we can relate to which will be useful in helping people understand our predicaments.

How about the X-Men or any spin-off where important characters are "born different" and just want to feel "normal"?

Can you imagine being born so different you have to change your body to feel secure? The only difference is you are perceived as normal already, or at least physically conforming to within acceptable standards of what it means to be human, but so are a lot of super-powered mutants...

Try to explain it like this: "You know how Beast grew blue fur all over his body? Imagine that is me, only instead of blue fur, there is this wicked black hair and prominent bone structure."

I feel that when you have researched the topic for long enough it starts to make more sense along with confidence in your understanding of it then you find it easier to explain to other people.
I'd say transsexualism can be really confusing for a lot of people and making sure we keep it simple and easy to follow is so important. Confusion only sparks misinformation.

First break it down for them and clarify they understand what gender and dysphoria are.

Gender is a word that encompasses a number of areas but when accompanied by the word dysphoria if refers to how we interact with the world in regards to gender roles and gender expectations and how they don't correlate with our gender-identity, which is how we perceive our identity between masculine and feminine.


Dysphoria: a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness as opposed to...
Euphoria: a feeling of happiness, confidence, or well-being.

Most people are born with a feeling of contentment (euphoria) with their body in relation to how they perceive themselves between (masculine and feminine) gender-identity.. it's not something they usually give any thought to as it's not something that puts them at unease.


Some say gender can refer to the "brain sex" but I find that misleading and confusing.
I find the word gender confusing as it can work as an umbrella word that changes meaning with different context. But when it's hyphened with another word it makes it easier to pinpoint a meaning.

Someone's signature had a quote in it saying "we are a soul with a body not a body with a soul" and I think there is so much truth in that and it helps to clarify for people when they ask "well can't you just fix the perception of gender instead of the body?". Our core identity is within our mind and soul the body is just a vehicle for who we really are. The body can be changed to bring contentment to the mind and soul but not vice versa.. studies have proven this.

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this is how I understand it at this point I don't want to claim it as factual as I could of missed/misunderstood something etc..... I would love feed back as I may put this to certain family to see if it brings any more clarity.

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 02:19:48 AM
Most people are born with a feeling of contentment (euphoria) with their body in relation to how they perceive themselves between (masculine and feminine) gender-identity.. it's not something they usually give any thought to as it's not something that puts them at unease.

Maybe this is true... maybe it isn't, but leave off the bit after "themselves" and the statement suddenly becomes quite obviously false.

It is no stretch to say a vast majority of people in this day and age grapple with the reality of their image as it compares to perceived or advertised perfection we see in mass media. It may be that most people are content or "settle for" their body, but to say that non-gender questioning people are innately satisfied with their bodies is far from the truth (I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).
Rather than trying to precisely define the meanings of the terms in question to someone whom may not have the patience or capacity to retain that information or find it useful, it may be simple enough to ask the inquiring party if they have ever felt like they wanted to change or adjust their body in any way. I'm sure you will agree this must be common. People want to be taller, or lighter, or darker, or softer, or stronger, or smarter, or faster, more beautiful...

How foreign a concept can this be, to be uncomfortable with certain aspects of one's body? Surely this must be a universally understood thing...

It is hard to explain, especially without getting all brainy about it.

I try to use analogies which are relevant to the person I'm talking to. The other day it came up in a conversation with a friend who loves sailing. The story I told him was one where small boats are placed into two groups: motor boats and sailing boats and that basically I was born a sailing boat but looked a lot like a motor boat and they ended up putting me in the wrong fleet. The reason why things take a long time before you figure it out is that you stare for ages at your engine wondering what's wrong (sailing yachts have built in engines while many motor yachts have small masts to hold the night lights and antenna)...

Anyway, the story did stick

I think one of the issues we have in relating our feelings to others is that we (1) know so much about it and (2) are very focused on our own needs

Emma

Mirror dysphoria is gone when you glance in a mirror and see a nice woman looking back - that's when you realise that's why you can go round town and not get read.

Hi All

For people who don't have that problem it's hard to understand.
I once had that question from a straight friend and he asks what is it, and what do you feel when you have the gender problem?
I asked him how he was feeling when he wakes up tommorow and walkes to the bathroom, look into the mirror and his mustache was gone (that was his pride) and then he takes a shower, looked down and scares because it felt off somewhere (another pride) anyway when walking to his job the roadworkers are whistling to him and ask for a date because now he has boobies and round hips.
He said he was getting the point and it looks horrible for him.

Hugs
annette

I explained it to my brothers by saying that there are 2 colums of people walking in a hallway. The guys on the right side and girls on the left.
The hallway represents life. 

The floor is uneven and no matter how hard I tried to walk with the guys, gravity pulled me towards the girls. Some days it was relitively easy to walk, while other days it was difficult. I was seperate and not part of the main stream.

Living the life and the surgery, leveled the floor. I may not be part of the main stream, but its a lot easier to walk through life.

I think this is one of those instances where you need to take control of a discussion. For some people, no matter what you say, they will simply try to put you down. Just walk away from these types. They don't want to know, tjhey think they know everything. They are just looking for an argument. To those that really want to know I would try to proced like this.

The few times I've talked about it, I have generally started by asking people if they can fully understand situations like, diabetes or pregnancy or being gay. I ask then, beyond their intellectual knowledge, to what extent can they really understand?

Generally, they respond by saying that they know people who have diabetes, been pregnant or are gay. To which I respond, 'And you know someone who is trangendered, me'.

Unless you are in the situation, you can only have an intellectual understanding. That is all I can give you.

I've heard the comparison with wanting to be anything. A rock star, a monarch, an animal. (This was before that South Park episode). I point out that people don't generally seek to be gay or have diabetes. It might be viewed by others as a disability, and to an extent, it is. But it's something you learn to live with. A diabetic just learns to live with the diet and other aspects.

On the sexual issues, I simply say that my persoanl life is no more a matter of discussion than their's is.

To the question, do you want to cut it off, I would ask, if you had an extra ear, would you want to have it removed? I point out that any decision to surgically alter myself is a matter for me and comes under personal.

From there, I just say that, I know who I am. I know how I feel. I don't seek to justify it to anyone, nor to impose myself into anyone else's life. I am and always will be the same person I am now. But my inner instincts of who I am is female.

Do you want to wear dresses?

I want to express my appearance to reflect who I am. Lots of girls never wear dresses. may don't own a dress. But I need to express who I am. How I do that is like everyone else, my own concern.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
Maybe this is true... maybe it isn't, but leave off the bit after "themselves" and the statement suddenly becomes quite obviously false.

Yeah but it then also changes context, which you could do with any written paragraph about ...anything.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
It is no stretch to say a vast majority of people in this day and age grapple with the reality of their image as it compares to perceived or advertised perfection we see in mass media. It may be that most people are content or "settle for" their body, but to say that non-gender questioning people are innately satisfied with their bodies is far from the truth (I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).

*sigh*... again your twisting my words.... my words and point were related strictly to gender identity I made no reference or alluded to anything relating otherwise. I have no idea why you felt the next to twist my words out of context into a completely different direction. Strange. Like I said cisgendered people are content with their bodies in relation to gender-identity.. I mean.... that is the definition of cisgendered!!!!!!!! :S

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
Rather than trying to precisely define the meanings of the terms in question to someone whom may not have the patience or capacity to retain that information or find it useful, it may be simple enough to ask the inquiring party if they have ever felt like they wanted to change or adjust their body in any way. I'm sure you will agree this must be common. People want to be taller, or lighter, or darker, or softer, or stronger, or smarter, or faster, more beautiful...

Yeah but the thread and topic is about gender dysphoria not about "wishing" or "desiring" to make a cosmetic change to one's body. Wanting to be taller is not a "condition" like GD/GID that is nothing more than wishful thinking/desire.. to try and draw a parallel is futile.

On the idea of using analogy's and relating GD to other unwanted birth conditions then sure.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
How foreign a concept can this be, to be uncomfortable with certain aspects of one's body? Surely this must be a universally understood thing...

Like I was kinda saying before it really depends what it is, we all know that for a lot of people that don't know about this topic they think that it's a lifestyle choice and something that we "desire" to do. So I find it's important to separate that from say being uncomfortable with say one's ears then deciding to have then pinned. Even though it enriches their life it's still considered cosmetic surgery.
Trying to highlight to people the difference is important I would say.

It's funny how out of all my post you focused on the one paragraph that had the least to do with GD and was really just a bonus paragraph if anything. Simply to relate to a cisgendered person the opposite of GD which is what they feel. I would love to hear your opinion on the rest of my post.. you know the main part!

even before I realized I was TG I would look at pictures of me and it would feel so weird, it was like a feeling of how could that be me? i dont feel like thats me. I even told my family members and friends this because its such a strong feeling but just ignored it for the most part.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 17, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Like many, I avoided mirrors where possible.  But the thing that was the most interesting was going to the bathroom.  I have mostly always sat when using the toilet.  And part of that was when I would look down, it was gone.  It looked so natural. 

I could not stand showering.  Bathing was much better.  Enough bubbles and nothing could be seen.

Yes. I can totally identify with that. Anytime when there is an option so you don't have to see "it", just seems more natural, correct and "right".

Quote from: jessica on November 18, 2010, 06:45:47 AM
even before I realized I was TG I would look at pictures of me and it would feel so weird, it was like a feeling of how could that be me? i dont feel like thats me. I even told my family members and friends this because its such a strong feeling but just ignored it for the most part.

Same here. It's why I have few if any pics of myself from before around my house of me growing up. It's like looking at a stranger almost. A familiar stranger, but not something I identify as a pic of myself immediately. I mean I do know it's me after all, but sometimes I really really really ask myself and think, did I really look like that? Just a really unusual and difficult idea and feeling to convey to others via words.

Yeah, I've only really started to connect with pictures of myself and recognize myself in them since I've begun to look more male. There were maybe a dozen pictures of me in existence before...and there are probably hundreds from the last couple months.

Augh the mirrors, the mirrors! My parents think it's a neat thing to put a mirror on the back of every bedroom door + put one big one in the hallway facing my room directly. I catch myself looking down a lot and never looking in the mirror unless I'm shaving or tending to something appearance/medical related.

I can't say mine's been as bad as some though, but I too, have pondered how to explain it to someone if questioned about it. The mirror argument is a good one, actually. I humorously say, "I have been a girl this whole time, but I lost the coin flip in heaven so God gave me the opposite body! Lesson to be learned: Don't gamble with God, he'll just conjure up a miracle and win " or something like that. I've never had to explain it before (except to my therapist) so I'm not too experienced.

Yeah the mirrors are painful :/ One of them positioned badly at the end of my bed resulted in me seeing myself when I first woke up everyday it was extremely distressing. caused alot of damage.

Explaining Dysphoria I explain how it felt quite simply. imagine you feel as you do now feelings emotions and desires But your body begins twisting, You grow facial hair muscles deep voice and become a bulky hairy guy and you How would that impact your personal identity? If everyone else started calling you a man dispite you having never felt that you were wouldn't that make you feel insane?

Rather than Secondary sexual charactarisitcs it might aswell have been boils tumorous growths or pussy itchy scabbing lesions for how my male physical attributes appeared to me towards the end of my time.

It works for most pepole, The exception was my sister who says she would have been fine and happy if she was a fully functional male... it makes me wounder about her... :/ She is Extremely masculine in many of her characteristics has quite a deep voice openly refering to herself as "one of the lads" and is proud of her body hair and such... Hrrmm :|

Its like lecturing the dog.  They look at you like they understand, but you know they really have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: spacial on November 18, 2010, 05:39:58 AM
I think this is one of those instances where you need to take control of a discussion. For some people, no matter what you say, they will simply try to put you down. Just walk away from these types. They don't want to know, tjhey think they know everything. They are just looking for an argument. To those that really want to know I would try to proced like this.

I know what thats like ... I once tried to explain this to 3 of my closest friends and they just could not understand and kept asking me all kinds of awkward questions that I tried to answer to clear things for them ... finally they they gave up and outed me to my parents & then 2 refused to speak to me for several years.. (I dont blame them and I still care about them.... ) & 1 just pretends I dont exist...   At the end of it I felt so miserable I tried to convince myself I wasnt transgendered .. unfortunately that made me even more miserable, angry & cynical of person than I ever was and constantly in & out of drinking, smoking, overeating & depression... Something I was not able to get a hold of till recently ... when I finally was able to accept the fact that I am transgendered...  and finally have my life heading where I want to be going...

Even though its important to educate people about being transgendered, sometimes we must decide who is worth our time and do our best to educate those who are willing to listen rather than put us down  ... Its like someone once said its always the people who we care about who hurt us the most... its for these people we need to try the hardest...

Quote from: spacial on November 18, 2010, 05:39:58 AM
On the sexual issues, I simply say that my persoanl life is no more a matter of discussion than their's is.

To the question, do you want to cut it off, I would ask, if you had an extra ear, would you want to have it removed? I point out that any decision to surgically alter myself is a matter for me and comes under personal.

From there, I just say that, I know who I am. I know how I feel. I don't seek to justify it to anyone, nor to impose myself into anyone else's life. I am and always will be the same person I am now. But my inner instincts of who I am is female.

Do you want to wear dresses?

I want to express my appearance to reflect who I am. Lots of girls never wear dresses. may don't own a dress. But I need to express who I am. How I do that is like everyone else, my own concern.

Well said...