Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 06:28:58 AM
*sigh*... again your twisting my words....

Sorry, I guess I should have made this disclaimer more obvious:

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
(I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).

Anyway, changing the context was kind of the point, but I will give your post an honest response when I get back from work later.

I explain I feel like a woman in a man's body... then I tell them I have feeling of extreme anxienty and depression because of it. It is the same as being deformed, or as having to walk in drag 100% of your time. It feels like a dream I can never awake from, or a barless prison with no possiblity of escape. It is the same as trying to run with broken legs, or feeling that you don't exist and was never born.

Usually they can't relate to it, but they manage to understand that I suffer a lot from it.

Quote from: Valeriedances on November 18, 2010, 11:13:38 AM
I can speak more openly about it now that the dysphoria is gone (about what it was like).

Now that's the only thing I'm scared about. What if it doesn't go away, it doesn't get solved, I don't find the peace in my head/body... I just imagined things... My therapist, psychiatrist and even endocrinologist all say that it does and it'll be good for me. But you know... what if... 

Emma
(off on a tangent)

Side note: I'm going ahead with everything and I'm not afraid, but still, it's pretty scary

Quote from: Emma on November 18, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
Now that's the only thing I'm scared about. What if it doesn't go away, it doesn't get solved, I don't find the peace in my head/body... I just imagined things... My therapist, psychiatrist and even endocrinologist all say that it does and it'll be good for me. But you know... what if... 

Emma
(off on a tangent)

Side note: I'm going ahead with everything and I'm not afraid, but still, it's pretty scary

No reason to be afraid of the unknown. In usual circumstances when it comes to changing one's outside to match the inside, there is nothing that can happen but improvement. The future will be brighter, and while we should always live in the moment, we must also accept the past, for it is the past that has made us who we are today.

Also @ Spacial, I lol'd at the extra ear. I'm going to steal that saying if you don't mind 8D

vibes.

Friends don't do that. Those are conditions on freindship. Conditions that are none of their business.

I'm really sorry they treated you like this. But when you needed them, they didn't come through.


Aidan_

Be my guest.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 12:16:23 PM
Sorry, I guess I should have made this disclaimer more obvious:
Anyway, changing the context was kind of the point, but I will give your post an honest response when I get back from work later.

That's one of the stupidest posts I've seen all year... please don't response to my posts any more if possible... they'll no doubt just end in smites.

If I was asked how dysphoria actually feels I think I would say that it is like the feeling of having somebody attack your greatest insecurity every time any little thing reminds you that your sex and gender role do not match the core gender identity you were born with.

If you think about it, the biggest insecurities people have (things that well-aimed insults can cause a person to break down and cry) all have something in common with dysphoria, which is that they have a way of making us feel like our very connection with humanity has been severed.

When we make connections with people through a persona which diametrically contradicts who we really are at our core, those connections have very little substance, if any.  Along those same lines, whenever we catch glimpses of that persona in action, or when we have any sense that our own bodies are in any way discordant with our identity, it reminds us that we are not making honest emotional connections with anybody.  Realizing this can be utterly devastating for normal (non-sociopathic) people, because most humans run on love.  With it, we can find satisfaction and happiness in the worst conditions life can throw at us.  Without it, we can lose the will to even live pretty fast.

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 07:25:14 PM
That's one of the stupidest posts I've seen all year... please don't response to my posts any more if possible... they'll no doubt just end in smites.

Oh, forgive me your highness. 


Anyway...

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 06:28:58 AM
Yeah but it then also changes context, which you could do with any written paragraph about ...anything.

I wasn't assaulting your post, only using it for reference.

Quote*sigh*... again your twisting my words.... my words and point were related strictly to gender identity I made no reference or alluded to anything relating otherwise. I have no idea why you felt the next to twist my words out of context into a completely different direction. Strange. Like I said cisgendered people are content with their bodies in relation to gender-identity.. I mean.... that is the definition of cisgendered!!!!!!!! :S

Again, it was not my intent to twist your words, but to simply express my own. I'm sorry if I was unclear but you are being overly defensive.

QuoteYeah but the thread and topic is about gender dysphoria not about "wishing" or "desiring" to make a cosmetic change to one's body. Wanting to be taller is not a "condition" like GD/GID that is nothing more than wishful thinking/desire.. to try and draw a parallel is futile.
On the idea of using analogy's and relating GD to other unwanted birth conditions then sure.

Is it really so necessary to follow the topic so closely that related content is not relevant to the discussion? The topic is just as much "about" gender dysphoria as it is about helping people relate to your condition. This can be achieved in many ways. I find your cynicism both naive and ignorant.

QuoteLike I was kinda saying before it really depends what it is, we all know that for a lot of people that don't know about this topic they think that it's a lifestyle choice and something that we "desire" to do. So I find it's important to separate that from say being uncomfortable with say one's ears then deciding to have then pinned. Even though it enriches their life it's still considered cosmetic surgery.
Trying to highlight to people the difference is important I would say.

Obviously each response must be tailored to the individual. If you know the person you are talking to you can use a categorical explanation and define terms until your hearts content, but some people need to relate on a basic level without the excess terminology, and few will stand for this holy "special needs, special treatment" attitude. Just like anyone you are a person with a problem, it's simple enough draw relevant comparisons with people whom have different issues to deal with because the human condition itself is universal, and empathy can come from unexpected places..

QuoteIt's funny how out of all my post you focused on the one paragraph that had the least to do with GD and was really just a bonus paragraph if anything. Simply to relate to a cisgendered person the opposite of GD which is what they feel. I would love to hear your opinion on the rest of my post.. you know the main part!

You are just being confrontational, not unlike a troll, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it will click that I was not attacking you, but stating what I felt with your post as a reference. If you continue to choose to be offended I can't help that nor do I have any desire to entertain your aggression any further.

Have a nice evening.

Someone once told me on a topic totally not related to gender or sexual orientation, when I said that I did not understand.  I was told that I should be grateful that I cannot comprehend or understand, because that would mean that I would be either like that or capable of that.

The more that I think on the statement told to me, the more that I agree with it.  I had a similar statement told to me on a recent visit to check my vision.  My opthamologist told me that I was partially color blind.  If I remember correctly, he said blue or green or something like that.  I said that I see colors just fine, I really do.  So I asked him how does that color look compared to what I see?  He said that you cannot really explain color.  You have to see it, or in this case feel it.

I have tried to explain gender incongruity (that is a better phrase and will be the accepted phrase with the new standards of care coming out, not GID), but my effort was like trying to explain green.  People can kind of get it, but not really.

As I am feminizing, I am at peace with myself.  When I was younger and before electrology / laser, I could not look in the mirror.  That would freak me out.  Seeing the hair grow from my face, not to mention a masculine face, but especially the hair, was mortifying.  I hated to go to the dentist, because the dentist would see the hair coming out of me.  Needless to say, I hated the sound of my voice.  I could not listen to my voice without getting freaked out too.  Now that I am learning to raise my voice, I am okay with it, or better than before, and getting rid of my facial hair (etc.) was a godsend.

I am not sure how to advise on that.

I would be interested if someone finds a way to "explain it", but I am not having much luck.  Great question.

Hey this topic is facinating and great and would love it to continue.

It would be awesome if instead of continuing to argue over some interpretations and getting offended, just hit the report to moderator button and we will sort it out. Otherwise it is going to spiral out and we will have to lock the topic.

Capiche?

Thanks guys and dolls

Nicole 

(Keep in mind I'm still pre-hrt)
I too have a dislike for mirrors, but I realize there is no way to avoid them during your daily life in terms of hygiene. I am still shaving my face and have gotten a No!No! recently. I've noticed that I've started to dislike my facial and body hair the more I shave it off. It is the little guy that I'm abusive to between my legs that my dysphoria got me the most and if it weren't for SRS needing to use parts from it then I would have cut it off long ago. You could say before I knew what it was I was tucking all the time, but just the testicle part. As open as I am, I managed to get in trouble and flipped one before the end of grade five. As a result I lost it due to the hospital wait system, but I didn't care much for it either and when asked if I wanted an artificial testicle I turned it down with no hesistation.

As well, I have been sitting down to pee as long as I remember and it feels right. The only times I stand up to pee is if there is a urinal ,I'm needing to go badly, and in a club. Aside from what I wrote on my understanding myself thread. My desire to transition becomes more severe as days go by, I have tried everything and every window and in the end it has brought me back to understanding who I am. I've experimented with non-injectable drugs and stayed away from meth, but didn't do it enough to fry my mind. I pursued witchcraft as a quick fix to change my body by looking for gender change spells and I've spent money on countless spells from spell caster sites. I've even tried hypnosis websites like WMM and the more professional ones specializing in feminization. I've even self medicated for awhile and stopped. Like I mentioned I am back to understanding who I am and taking the right steps to transition.

To the people I came out to that I know from school and friends. I've been asked about my sexuality personally I really don't know anymore, but to make the answer quick I say I'm bisexual since I find some males really attractive even though I am still attracted to some woman.

Quote from: sarahla on November 18, 2010, 10:36:15 PM
Someone once told me on a topic totally not related to gender or sexual orientation, when I said that I did not understand.  I was told that I should be grateful that I cannot comprehend or understand, because that would mean that I would be either like that or capable of that.

Excellent point.

First, let me second Nicky's warning.  Attack the subject, not the people. [/ ]

The way I explained GID was to use the example of how they used to print pictures.  They would run the paper through the press four times - one for each color plus black.  If the paper got just a bit out of alignment - out of register - the picture wouldn't look right.  Sometimes you could tell that the colors weren't aligned, but sometimes it was close and all you could tell was that it wasn't quite right - that something was off.  That's the way my life was - out of register.

- Kate

I think of it like having an itch that I can't scratch no matter how hard I try. It gets more and more intense and never goes away.
Randi

Recently, when I look in the mirror, I wonder who that old man is, at least when I am dressed for work. With my hair down in my other clothes, I begin to see hints of someone I can identify with.

For me, dysphoria is not seeing myself in the mirror, not feeling right when called "Mr." and not liking how I am treated as a man. I am not treated badly, but it does not feel "right." I feel like I do not "fit." It is hard to explain better because for me it is more subtle than for some others who are very clear that they always knew. All I knew until recently is I did not fit. Or maybe my "role" did not fit me, I am not sure.

I look good in a tux; I want to look good in a dress. Maybe that is as good an explanation as any.

Kendall

(P.S.: I am beginning to sit on the toilet almost always at home; it is cleaner).

Dys•pho•ri•a - a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting...

Soul fidgeting sounds about right to me... lol

Endless restlessness and the lack of the ability to feel centred in myself – defo!!

Anxiety, also true.... relief could come from hiding my boyz bits and looking at myself tight crossed legged fully naked in a mirror – far more reassuring than any girlie clothes or make-up.... which for me only enhanced the artifice... and what I was not... (I was always acutely aware of the woman deep within)

Dissatisfaction... that my real personae were so stifled, yep that too...

A state... that by the time I hit 30.... I knew for my own personal survival, I would finally have to face, accept (start liking myself) and act upon.

Which I did...

By 33 all the dysphoria I'd experienced as a child onward had finally eased and gone.

At 52 now.... absolutely no regrets, none, No way, Nej, Nein, Nyet, Non, Nahin...Iie!

To borrow from the words of Nike...

So if you be trapped pre-transition and your life is ghormanghastly awful.... deep breaths and just do it baby!

Sarahla's description in terms of colour is spot on. 

I was thinking along the lines of someone who is left-handed or dislexic but doesn't know it.

All their life people have told them not to be so  clumsy or that they are stupid. One day they find out there is a name for their condition, they are as smart as everyone else, and that pain be relieved.

Or maybe like one of Holden's Commodore cars.  The 1986 (?) VL model was a Holden but it had a Nissan engine, so there was no point reaching for a Holden workshop manual to repair it. No matter how much you tried, nothing would work, and you would just cause more damage.

Hi justmeinoz,

I am left handed. :-) That caused me pain as well.  This planet is designed for right handed people.  My mom tried ever so hard for me to write and do things with my right hand.  That is what partially caused the stuttering problem that I had as a youth, gender being the other part.  My handwriting still looks crappy.

Okay, I am so envious of some girls writing style and how nicely they write.  One of these days, I will have to learn to write.

People should let people be as they naturally are.  Nature / God / the individual knows the best.

Quote from: sarahla on November 18, 2010, 10:36:15 PM
Needless to say, I hated the sound of my voice.  I could not listen to my voice without getting freaked out too.  Now that I am learning to raise my voice, I am okay with it, or better than before, and getting rid of my facial hair (etc.) was a godsend.

I am not sure how to advise on that.

I would be interested if someone finds a way to "explain it", but I am not having much luck.  Great question.

I also get somewhat freaked out whenever I hear a recording of my "male voice". I'm always like "I don't sound like that... do I? 

However your voice is easier to improve upon than lots of other stuff. 

I keep thinking of voice surgery, but I know of a certain someone who would get freaked out at the idea.  The next thing on my list is to get a hair transplant.  I am nearing the end of electrology finally after four years.  Seriously, I do not know of anyone else that has worked on electrology that long than me.  I am down to a half hour on my head per week, although the back of the neck is a bit stubborn.  Yes, a hair transplant is next, and I would not mind a vocal surgery second.  Words do not express how I hate my male sounding voice.  Talking with a forced higher pitch voice does not always work and gets tiring.

I can sympathize with you on listening to recordings.

The hardest to "improve" is downstairs and the hips.  The pubic bone is another issue, because on women it connects.  On men the pubic bone does not. That falls into the category of "downstairs".

Okay feet are issues too, huge ones (12.5W).