So, it's after midnight and I can't sleep. I had a conversation with a friend of mine today who knows my whole "situation". Lately I've been under a lot of stress in other areas of my life and when that happens some core issues I've struggled with my whole life sometimes resurface.

This is actually what started the whole thing off ... I made an appointment to see my acupuncturist. It's been months since I've seen her and she's a really cool person but I somehow feel that it would actually upset her in some way to know "the truth" about me. It's hard to explain really but she's really a sweet lady and I don't want to make her feel weird when dealing with me, so in the past I'd always be "female" when seeing her. So anyway, today I was in the shower and I look down at my somewhat hairy legs and thought to myself, oh that might weird her out. So I shaved. Now here's the thing. I asked my friend if it was a lame thing to do. I told him that it felt kind of like a fail to myself ... I compromise because of what other people may think in certain situations. Well he told me no, basically. He said it didn't matter if I shaved my legs or I didn't, that I'd always be who I was anyway and that was never going to change. I'd always be male no matter how people viewed me or what I did. His exact words, "you could walk down the street in a lacy frock and you'd still be a man".

And it's true, my whole bag is really that you are who you are on the inside. But I have my weak moments like anyone else. Basically the convo with my friend went on and he told me, "you really have to just live your life and stop giving a f__k what other people think". Which is actually true, although hard to give up 100%. It seems we're all so wrapped up in what other people actually think of us. It doesn't matter if you're trans - I'm just talking all around, people seem to place a real importance on what other people think. Every time I fall into that trap, I realize it again. I modified a small part of my behavior because I was afraid of what someone would think.

So here's where my mind has drifted this evening ... what if, I could really, 100%, get on board with the "it doesn't matter what other people think" line of thinking? I've come pretty far in the last 6 years, yet I still go backwards sometimes. I'm to the point now where I honestly believe that I don't have a disorder and I never have. And for the most part, I accept my body the way it is. Where I still have some issues to work out is not necessarily in "compromising" in my day to day life - but how I view it. I feel like I shouldn't be compromising yet I still can feel weird and awkward about certain things.

This leads me to think about the whole "passing" thing. We've all led different lives and had different experiences, yet most everyone who is male in a female body is worried about passing as 100% male. I imagine, that for most people that means society accepting them as male without question. But my personal question is, is this another compromise? If I think, act and dress like male AND am confident I am male inside, do I actually need everyone's external approval?

I know this brings up more concerns such as, well, if you're going to live your life as male you have to "pass" as male in order to get work, use the men's room, etc. I understand the difficulties of not presenting as 100% male in this situations (been there, done that). But what I'm getting at are some questions: Is it really society's acceptance of a visual male that is most important? Is it really a person's mind being incongruous with the body that is causing the need to have the visual acceptance? Is it a bit of both? Is it something else entirely?

The cause of discomfort for me has changed over time. When I was a kid, I was totally fine with everything. When people referred to me as female I thought it was a little odd but it was nothing that actually effected me ... I just went on with my life. When they would haul me out of the boys restroom when I was in elementary school I wondered why. That was kind of my first introduction to the very black and white, male/female society we live in. It was segregated and there was no in between. Yet there I was ... in between. And I existed. There was no denying that. Then later on I was "diagnosed" with a "mental disorder". Most of my life it was other people deciding for me - you're female - you have a disorder that's causing you to think different - you need to act this way or dress that way. Never mind the fact that the very first diagnosis I ever got was intersex. So I started out not batting for one team or the other - but switch hitting (sorry for the sports reference, but it was the best metaphor I could come up with after midnight!).

The same friend I mentioned at the beginning has been one of the few people in my life to reinstall normalcy to me. He says, "you're you and that's normal". If only everyone could thing that, huh? It's very hard to change the way you've thought about something your whole life. More and more I realize it doesn't matter how society views me. If they choose to view me as female, that's fine. If they choose to view me as male, that's fine too. I've managed to find a partner in life. I've managed to work. I've managed to have friends. That's all pretty "normal".

I fought against my own thoughts for a long time and in so doing made things very difficult. I also did a bunch of really dumb ass things (like use alcohol in an attempt to escape my reality). It's really been just a matter of letting go - letting go of expectations ... letting go of anger ... letting go of "ideals" of what is male in society. At points I have gotten so wrapped up in trying to make sure people viewed me as male that I actually lost myself - I stopped being myself because of this worry.

Well, I guess I've just made another really long post and I need to attempt to sleep. Anyway, just my thoughts again. Feel free to share your own thoughts on how you view "passing" and it's importance to you.

1. Holy ->-bleeped-<- your friend is awesome <3 That's a truly understanding friend to have. :3

2. Shaving your legs? Why, alot of manly males do it for sports. Why would it be odd for you to do it? You should take the advice of not giving a hoot.

And passing? Well.. other than just a few safety issues (I'm scared thanks to the truth behind "Boys Don't Cry"... which in fact, I can't watch the movie because of what happened to the person, I feel sick thinking about it) so I'm safe... I don't think about passing much. Though I do get pissed if called ma'am or she.
I rather be viewed as a PERSON though, rather than a gender if anything. But that's impossible... so I want the correct pronoun. I'm a confusing person I believe and it is also rather late and I can't sleep.

Before I got my top surgery, it was a HUGE deal for me to pass. I wanted to pass 100% all the time. With the surgery done and over with? I'm alot less worried and more lax. I just stride into men's rooms, probably looking feminine as hell now that it's cold weather and I will not even care if my hoodie is falling off my shoulder and just go into the stall.
I generally look angry all the time, and I carry a knife on me 90% of the time so I can protect myself. Even if I was born physically male, I wouldn't be strong due to all the weak heart, lung, and spine troubles I have.

So bottom line really... now it's just as a passing thing. I try to look like I'm a punk a bit, hoping noone will mess with me.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on November 24, 2010, 03:06:52 AMAt points I have gotten so wrapped up in trying to make sure people viewed me as male that I actually lost myself - I stopped being myself because of this worry.

That is an excellent observation. That sentence just leapt off the screen and whacked me around the head.

Well, as someone who's made no effort whatsoever (and lacks any hope whatsoever) to pass full-time and is still struggling to pass even part-time, closeted to all but a few sympathetic friends- trying to pass is important because the way other people act hurts me a lot and they never even have reason to suspect it should, thinking I'm oversensitive and always angry. In a perfect world no man would walk up to the first female-appearing person he saw and vomit, "You're a girl so tell me how girls act and think so I can get a different girl to like me" then wonder why it made you furious with him and think his behavior is perfectly acceptable.  Unfortunately, even as a grown-ass adult talking to other grown-ass adults, this happens to me at least once every couple of months. (and yesterday, it also happened to me yesterday.)

Speaking from personal experience, once I'm out to someone, because I'm not really able to pass or willing to sink a bunch of money into what I'm sure will be a futile endeavor, suddenly they don't know how to talk to/about me anymore. They should, they've known me and I'm not a different person, but suddenly it's like they're walking on eggshells.

Finally, I feel like there are ethical pitfalls to the fact that I am getting things from the government and have gotten into relationships based on the half-truth that I'm female- I imagine a biomale doing some of the ->-bleeped-<- I've gotten away with- namely getting married to another dude while gay marriage is still illegal and then receiving military benefits all while dressed up as a girl even though he's not one; and I feel like a cheat. I feel like not being bothered that I've done this might make me evil. Obviously I've discussed my sex/gender incongruity with my husband, we discussed it when he was still my boyfriend, so he knows I'm trans even if the government doesn't- and that takes me back to point one about people being accidentally hurtful to me without realizing it because I can't pass. See, what he said when I explained this, the exact quote was "When you're a man, that's when the love stops." Of course I know he meant he's not sexually attracted to men so we'd no longer be romantically involved if I transition; but because I know who I am, because the reality really is that I'm a man with a female body, in his own exact words he said he doesn't love me. If I looked male this never would have happened to me, and because I don't look male it did and he doesn't understand why I cried when he said that.

This is a great post, and it's something I think about all the time.

Putting safety concerns aside (in some environments, I think it is important to blend in no matter which gender you are expressing), I don't think passing is or should be the "everything" to my existence. I don't like it when strangers think that I'm something I'm not in how they refer to me or the expectations they have or place on my behavior - but that's true in different ways. It's a trade-off. I don't like being thought of as female. I also don't like being thought of as a someone easily a decade + under my age. Sometimes, that's a tradeoff. Professionally and for career, it's a non-negotiable one. (The need to be viewed as an age-appropriate male as opposed to just being viewed as male.)

Just in general, though, I don't like the idea of having to wear clothing combinations or arrangements that are not comfortable or my 'style' (to the extent I even have one - haha) because it presents a particular stereotypical image, because it strategically de-emphasizes aspects of my body, or because it provides me the opportunity to use a urinal. For sure, it is about balance and trade-offs. I think there is a push sometimes for FTMs to follow blanket "rules" that make it easier to pass, and to be honest, I could probably design the perfect, "So you want to pass..." guide based on everything I've read, seen, and experienced. Some aspects of passing are expensive, some are simply forcing people to be someone they are not. I don't agree with turning everyone into the magical passing man at the expense of their identities and who they are. But it is really a personal choice - how much do you want to "pass" versus otherwise express yourself. This is something that is not unique to FTMs. Many guys with long hair or who paint their nails and have a dad yelling at them to cut it off or knock it off can probably relate.

I've also spent a bit of time thinking about how I treat aspects of my body - do I need to shave my legs if I will be seen by someone providing services to me who I am not out to? If so, why? I can understand why you felt like it was a fail to have shaved. The good news is that you get a do over. Hair grows back. You'll prob go see the accupuncturist again. If you were unhappy with your choice this time, you can look at the balance next time and take that into account.

When I first came out to myself, passing was important to me (I am male! View me as male!). With a good haircut and a binder, I could pass very well in many contexts, especially because so many of my natural mannerisms are viewed as masculine. My therapist asked me, "How did it FEEL?" expecting some magical enlightenment of "wow, I feel GRRRRRRRRRRREAT." Except - it didn't feel like much of anything. For the most part, it felt like being me. It felt....normal. It was no big deal. The only big deal was getting over in my head how much I *didn't* need to care or worry about the little details that made up that big picture. However, what made it good is that it was the absence of feeling bad. The more I have come to terms with who I am, the more it bothered me to be expected to wear female clothes, present as female and be referred to as such. So while passing doesn't make me feel special, in many contexts, being seen as female or treated as one does bother me. Sometimes, though, I admit, it really is about wanting to blend and not be seen as 'different' with strangers and people I don't know. I just want to do what I have to do and not have gender be a part of that at all. Since our culture is so binary, that means fitting in as one way or the other, and I'm just better at the male version of it.

Even now when I do try to put a great deal of importance on just being true to myself, I feel like I spent too much energy or have to make too many decisions that depends on my "pass-ability" in a particular place or environment. I do see one of the benefits as Hrt and top surgery as allowing me to ease back on this, because I will be able to blend better, as the right gender and age, without having to do much of anything else. I've heard from multiple guys who are much further past where I am that eventually you stop passing and you are just being. I've been trying to put myself as much in that mindset NOW as I can - I just need some patience on how the passing of TIME will help this happen for me.

Hey guys, first of all, thanks for the responses!

Quote from: BloodLeopard on November 24, 2010, 05:46:05 AM
Before I got my top surgery, it was a HUGE deal for me to pass. I wanted to pass 100% all the time. With the surgery done and over with? I'm alot less worried and more lax.

I think for a lot of people having top surgery really does help them to just relax and that's a good thing.

Quote from: Aegir on November 24, 2010, 06:14:33 AM
Speaking from personal experience, once I'm out to someone, because I'm not really able to pass or willing to sink a bunch of money into what I'm sure will be a futile endeavor, suddenly they don't know how to talk to/about me anymore. They should, they've known me and I'm not a different person, but suddenly it's like they're walking on eggshells.

Finally, I feel like there are ethical pitfalls to the fact that I am getting things from the government and have gotten into relationships based on the half-truth that I'm female- I imagine a biomale doing some of the ->-bleeped-<- I've gotten away with- namely getting married to another dude while gay marriage is still illegal and then receiving military benefits all while dressed up as a girl even though he's not one; and I feel like a cheat.

I never sat down a lot of people in my life and said, "hey you know what? I'm male." Some may look at that as a cop out, but that's not really how I look at it. I know my mom never needs to hear that. I know she knows deep inside anyway because she raised me and for 20 years and dealt with all my other issues. I respect anyone who doesn't come out all the way to their parents or their friends for what ever reason. My life, although it's had ups and downs, has still been easier. Some can say I took the easy way, or wasn't a "strong" or "brave" person, but they don't know me and my life and situation either and that's just their opinions.

On your second point, that's certainly your viewpoint to think that, but it's also not illegal. I can totally understand how you can feel like a cheat, but you're not actually. I married a guy. Happily he wasn't the type that told me he didn't love me if I was male. People you're romantically involved with can of course deal with the situation differently. If the person truly fell in love with you as a human being, I think it just works. That is a special person because they've evolved past just male and female/black and white. Love actually doesn't have silly boundaries like that. I consider myself very lucky in that regard.

Quote from: Sean on November 24, 2010, 08:43:06 AM
I don't like it when strangers think that I'm something I'm not in how they refer to me or the expectations they have or place on my behavior - but that's true in different ways. It's a trade-off. I don't like being thought of as female.

Many guys with long hair or who paint their nails and have a dad yelling at them to cut it off or knock it off can probably relate.

I've also spent a bit of time thinking about how I treat aspects of my body - do I need to shave my legs if I will be seen by someone providing services to me who I am not out to? If so, why? I can understand why you felt like it was a fail to have shaved. The good news is that you get a do over. Hair grows back. You'll prob go see the accupuncturist again. If you were unhappy with your choice this time, you can look at the balance next time and take that into account.

Even now when I do try to put a great deal of importance on just being true to myself, I feel like I spent too much energy or have to make too many decisions that depends on my "pass-ability" in a particular place or environment. I do see one of the benefits as Hrt and top surgery as allowing me to ease back on this, because I will be able to blend better, as the right gender and age, without having to do much of anything else. 

People referring to me as female still does get to me in a way. It's actually rare that gender comes up - maybe if I had to count, a couple times a month or less? That does help. But if I've come this far I know I can actually get to the point where that just doesn't effect me any of the time.

I have one particular bio male friend who is often seen as feminine. Sometimes he even plays that up just to mess with people! He's gained a huge amount of confidence over the years has basically reached the point where he really does not care and it does not effect him one bit if people think he's feminine, actually a women, or gay. Having feminine characteristics is still such a taboo to many males. There are people who are breaking those molds though and that's a good thing.

And this is true - hair does grow back and also like BloodLeopard said, many guys do shave all over, so I'm doing my best to just be ok with whatever decisions I made on that topic.

I have found that too - the energy expenditure thing. It does take a lot out of you after awhile. I think if you're really deep into dysphoria or depression it can add an even heavier feeling by "having to pass". When I've been like that, I try to remember to question, "does not looking a certain way change who you are?" And no matter how down I feel about it, the answer is always no - it actually doesn't. I really am going to be the same person either way.

But this is also why "transition" exists. For some, it's just a better route to go so that they can stop placing importance on how the world sees them and blend in. If you know deep down (and you will get to a point that you KNOW, no matter where you are in your thought process at the moment) that you will not be happy unless you have surgery or present all the time as male, then that will work for you.

As for the age thing, I'm oddly perfectly ok with the fact that I look 10-15 years younger than I am. My parents both look much younger than they are so I know it's genes. And when everyone else looks all elderly, I'll still look good! ha. Every time I get ID'd or something it actually makes me smile. If I can get to that place with age, I know I can get to that place with gender.