Hi all,

Well the situation with the coworker is resolved (I don't know if she saw on my paper I was male, or if someone told her, but she refers to me as male now.)

But I still continue to get ma'amed (or missed, ugh) by random people. It didn't bother me before when I knew I wasn't passing, but after going through a period of passing (or thinking I was), it does.

It happens probably once a day even with obvious facial hair I grew (though its blond/red, so not as obvious from a distance).

The problem now is that when it happens, my confidence instantly deflates and I feel like a failure. And then fears creep in of how long this is going to go on, and just how long a beard am I going to have to grow? 

So for those of you who went through androgynous periods like this: how do you keep from feeling like the wind's knocked out of you everytime? How do you stay upbeat and confident? Is there some kind of trick?

Quote from: Forum Admin on November 29, 2010, 11:53:53 AMThe problem now is that when it happens, my confidence instantly deflates and I feel like a failure. And then fears creep in of how long this is going to go on, and just how long a beard am I going to have to grow? 

That describes my experience exactly. Well, other than the beard part. It pretty much ruins my day every time it happens. Mostly I try not to take it out on the person, and I just try to resolve it as quickly as possible. I try to remember that it's getting better with every passing day, even if it seems to take forever. And I try to keep in mind how much better it is now, all the people who use the right pronouns always without any second thought, the times that I've had to convince bouncers that, yes, that's really my drivers' license. In other words, I grit my teeth and keep on living my life.

And sometimes I go home and cry for a little while.

When I get it these days it tends to be someone I knew before transitioning who knew me as female. 

They slip and my first reaction is shock.  Then I feel annoyed because why are they not trying harder when it is obviously so important to me.  This is followed by hurt because perhaps that is the way they really see me and all this Paul nonsense is just lip service.  Then I get angry because if that's the way they feel why can't they be more upfront about it.  However I do my best to be an adult and just correct them firmly but politely. 

Sometimes they say the sentence again with the right pronoun and rarely they apologize.  I know people are allowed mistakes.  It's just what I really wish is that they would try harder to respect me. 

It really is a horrible feeling, every time i hear that dreaded maam or miss, like something gets ripped out of me or something. What i just do is remind myself its not their fault so im not mad at them, take a deep breath and move on. I dont dwell on it anymore because i think of how lucky i am to finally be transitioning and have this oppertunity whereas if i didnt i would never get all the "sirs" that i actually do, and i think about how soon, there wont even be a question anymore. Sorry if i havent helped but hang in there and keep your head up because your almost there.

QuoteBut I still continue to get ma'amed (or missed, ugh) by random people. It didn't bother me before when I knew I wasn't passing, but after going through a period of passing (or thinking I was), it does

That sums it up for me. When I am not passing and I know it it doesn't bother me. But when I am passing and they still missuse pronouns THAT is when it bothers me.

I try and not think about it (but it doesn't help) and it can be really off putting, especially if it's in a situation where I've already passed as female but then failed on closer inspection, which happens a fair bit.

Right on Dee.
I so hate being sired.
Give me bitch any day.

Well I don't expect to pass very often and I haven't asked family to refer to me with male pronouns so whenever I get "she'd" it feels kinda like a mosquito bite. I dunno if it gets worse over time like if I start passing more then get she'd and it'll become being stabbed in the eye or something. But right now it's a sort of annoying little jab that irritates the hell out of me, not only as it happens but bothers me for a little while afterward.

I am going to reference my feelings from my work experience.

At work I am stealth. I pass 100% pre-T, pre-op. I am still she'd every now and again by both guests and co-workers. Now whether these specific co-workers know or not is beyond me and I'd prefer to keep it that way. As for guests, I guess something just tips them off? I am well off in that I pass to everyone, but given the right moments my voice might be too androgynous for some? Hm. Anyway, I try to shrug it off from guests since there's a decent chance I won't see them again. With co-workers I worry and panic internally, but still just shrug it off. Then again, I'm more of an internalizing kind of person where it'll build and build... then KABOOM!

To sum it all up, it hurts me in the end.

Try to live in the moment though and intervene when necessary, like if they haven't corrected themselves after the 3rd time or so.

My androgynous period was from about age 16 to 20. At 16, nobody quite knew which I was or what I was supposed to be but by 20 I was being taken for a girl pretty much regardless of how I dressed. That was a relief because at least I wasn't being gendered male. After transition (age 24) I was very rarely miss-gendered. When it did happen, it was usually met with laughter and an incredulous "EXCUSE ME???"

What I don't like is when I can't hear if I'm misgendered or not. A lot of times people tack on the sir/ma'am at the end of the sentence, and it can be noisy or they can drop the end of the sentence as a speech pattern. My ability to hear when surrounded by ambient noise isn't the best (thanks a lot Sony Walkman of my youth). So I don't want to correct someone if I'm not sure I've been ma'amed. Yet I don't want to sit there wondering if they are doing it repeatedly either.

It mostly bugs me when someone who knows me outs me to someone who doesn't know

Especially when it's done on purpose and the new friend gets weirded out and begins to act strange towards me 

Quote from: Wolf Man on November 30, 2010, 10:30:50 PM
I am going to reference my feelings from my work experience.

At work I am stealth. I pass 100% pre-T, pre-op. I am still she'd every now and again by both guests and co-workers. Now whether these specific co-workers know or not is beyond me and I'd prefer to keep it that way. As for guests, I guess something just tips them off? I am well off in that I pass to everyone, but given the right moments my voice might be too androgynous for some? Hm. Anyway, I try to shrug it off from guests since there's a decent chance I won't see them again. With co-workers I worry and panic internally, but still just shrug it off. Then again, I'm more of an internalizing kind of person where it'll build and build... then KABOOM!

To sum it all up, it hurts me in the end.

Try to live in the moment though and intervene when necessary, like if they haven't corrected themselves after the 3rd time or so.

I'm not sure if your definition of "stealth" and "pass" are quite the same as mine.

I feel like.. wtf gave me away? But mostly the only people i get the she from is people that don't have my information changed over yet.. like the pharmacy! Drives me nuts - but it's in  a super public place so I don't feel like correcting 3 workers talking about me.

Quote from: Squirrel698 on November 29, 2010, 11:50:27 PM
When I get it these days it tends to be someone I knew before transitioning who knew me as female. 

They slip and my first reaction is shock.  Then I feel annoyed because why are they not trying harder when it is obviously so important to me.  This is followed by hurt because perhaps that is the way they really see me and all this Paul nonsense is just lip service.  Then I get angry because if that's the way they feel why can't they be more upfront about it.  However I do my best to be an adult and just correct them firmly but politely. 

Sometimes they say the sentence again with the right pronoun and rarely they apologize.  I know people are allowed mistakes.  It's just what I really wish is that they would try harder to respect me.

Squirrel, this is my work day all day. I have two full-time jobs now. One is my paying job, the other is correcting co-workers who knew me before transition. You'd think they'd eventually catch on. I'm going to have to take the metal pipe under my desk* and beat them next.


*It was there before I started working there. Now I know why.

In my early days of full time living, every time I got sir'd, I would feel crushed. Now, I just brush it off, unless they are my family or friends, and I will correct them, because it bothers me. I try not to comment, but it's really difficult to stop myself.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on December 01, 2010, 02:42:06 PM
It mostly bugs me when someone who knows me outs me to someone who doesn't know

Especially when it's done on purpose and the new friend gets weirded out and begins to act strange towards me 

This happened to me today and got me really bummed out since this person now says she even when work has told co workers to use he.This person didn't know about me since he only recently started, until someone told him.  It feels awful to lose a potential friend due to a coworkers cruel words.

Quote from: LordKAT on December 03, 2010, 02:43:25 AMIt feels awful to lose a potential friend due to a coworkers cruel words.

I know, man, I know. That's why when the time is right I'm GTFO of here.

*It was there before I started working there.

Ahh yes, but you left it there.  I like you more already.

Quote from: Tad on December 02, 2010, 04:37:41 PM
I feel like.. wtf gave me away? But mostly the only people i get the she from is people that don't have my information changed over yet.. like the pharmacy! Drives me nuts - but it's in  a super public place so I don't feel like correcting 3 workers talking about me.

Damn pharmacy. It's a complete fiasco every single time I go there, which is more now, because for some reason they only fill one month at a time now instead of three. To hell with them; I'm done giving them my business.