Quote from: Jillieann on November 29, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
Sarah,
I had to learn how to sit, walk and talk like a guy. My dad keep on me, correction me, until I did it right.
In fact he even had to show me what kinds of toys, games and sports boys played.
I think because of it I still don't like most of them.
Dad made sure I had no dolls for me only toy guns, solders and the like would do.
Mom broke down and got me a plush monkey for Christmas but
  my sister and I fought over it so much that we ripped the ears off of it.
Sorry I'm off topic.
Jillieann

I didn't need to have anyone do that to me - I did it to myself, from a very young age. "Don't play with girls' toys. If you gotta play with them, play with them in a really boyish fashion, and don't get discovered. Sit like this, walk like this, talk like this." Some of my earliest memories are having to restrain myself, because otherwise I wouldn't be accepted. Now, I know this wasn't really true, but I believed it. At no point in my life have I ever allowed myself to act freely. And nobody else moderated me.

My point being, a strict, narrow-minded parent is not necessary to experience that. It's quite possible to do it to yourself.

Oh I was a people please.

It wasn't all my parents fault.

Quote from: Jillieann on November 29, 2010, 05:54:11 PM
Oh I was a people please.

It wasn't all my parents fault.

Yeah, so was I. Still am. Can't quite figure out which came first - the need to follow rules, or the fear of not fitting in.

My parents openly stated their desire to raise me and my sisters gender-neutrally. Of course, the best intentions in the world don't change the fact that a parent will treat their child differently depending on the child's sex. And there are more people in a child's life than just the parents.

Jillieann,

I can smile for what you wrote.  Believe it or not, I do remember those days.  My mom was okay in this department.  Her thing was that I should do things right-handed (I am left-handed), so I got hit every time that I wrote with my left hand and did other stuff with it.  With that and my gender, I developed a stutter.  There was once, when I was about 8 years old that they sent me to a military school, Paige Military Academy, complete with guys and uber amounts of testosterone.  I still remember how they tried to get us to hold guns and the lunch, Chef Boy Ardee.  Oh, I hated that place.  I put a stop to that quickly.

Thankfully, I was not bothered in the toys department.  I hated boy games passionately.  My  sister and I fought over who got to name the dolls and play with them.  I usually won.  There was one doll that she liked a lot, so she did not even tell me about it, as she wanted it for herself and to name it.

Why I wanted to please people and be embarrassed about everything is beyond me.  I see kids today and they are so different than I (Jossee, the 8 or 9 year old trans girl (open) and of course Kim Petras).  I hate to say I could have been her, but I grew up in a different time and place.

I do not have many memories of my toddler years, but there is learning how to pee.  I kept wanting to pee like a girl.  My father had to show me how to stand up and pee.  I thought that it was weird and sick then, and I still think that peeing like a guy is weird and sick.  Some things do not change.

I had to learn everything as a guy.  Now, I have to learn how to be a girl.  Life is unfair in this way.  I should have just been forceful and honest and just say that I was a girl and to tell them to go screw themselves if they think that they are  going to force me to write with my right hand and to do things as a boy.  I am still angry on this little topic.

I can only smile on your plush monkey, as you have similar experiences.

Jillieann, I do not know what to tell you about your father forcing you to be a boy and the pain that you endured for so very long, not to mention the lack of a relationship at an early age with your father.  Do you and your father have an improved relationship now?  Does he accept you as a female? (Mine does not and we do not have much of a relationship.)  If it means anything, I understand.  Thankfully, you are old enough now and can work on undoing the damage, same as me, just sadly undoing the damage does not happen overnight.

Sarah,
I love my dad and  have a better relationship with my dad now.
I have forgave him and know he was only doing what he though was best for me.
But I don't think he will ever accept me as a female.
Jillieann

If this is the only behaviors you notice from people, then you must be passing, and there is nothing to be worried about.

I would assume that if you did not pass people will be more or less making it much more obvious than simply smiling. People in general view transsexuals as freaks without hearts, so to them they will be much more blunt.

You would hear, "Is that a woman or a male?", "Sir, uh ma'am, sir" much more often.

To me you pass as a female, and look decent for the age group. There's nothing shocking nor is there anything that is eye grabbing such as a large jaw or heavy features. To me you blend quite nicely... and I probably will not view you as a transsexual on a street but an ordinary female.

Quote from: Megan on November 30, 2010, 06:49:16 AM
If this is the only behaviors you notice from people, then you must be passing, and there is nothing to be worried about.

I would assume that if you did not pass people will be more or less making it much more obvious than simply smiling. People in general view transsexuals as freaks without hearts, so to them they will be much more blunt.

You would hear, "Is that a woman or a male?", "Sir, uh ma'am, sir" much more often.

To me you pass as a female, and look decent for the age group. There's nothing shocking nor is there anything that is eye grabbing such as a large jaw or heavy features. To me you blend quite nicely... and I probably will not view you as a transsexual on a street but an ordinary female.

Oh yes, you're right. I once met up with another MtF who lived nearby, this was before I started with anything transition related and was just looking for resources locally. We met at a local coffee shop on a Sunday morning, not very crowded, just a few random younger people reading the paper ect. She was in her 50's, face was passible, hair was thin'ish, voice was not passible at all. We got a few very harsh comments thrown our way, stuff that scared me, but they just rolled off her like it was nothing.

She was the first trans person other than myself I'd ever met. At the time and even now I don't think I could ever be as strong as her and ignore the comments she got that day. I've gotten some comments over the years, but nothing as bad as what she took in that half an hour that we sat there and talked that morning. I wonder how she's doing, I lost her number and we haven't spoke in several years.

Anyway, you might not know if you pass, but believe me, if you don't pass....you'll know.

~Sara

I hate to rain on the parade but those smiles usually mean that we are being read but approvingly. The more convincing my appearance became the less I would get those looks and smiles.  the god thing to hang your hat on is that it is a smile of acceptance. You are being accepted as female even if recognized as trans. No woman would smile like that at a strange man.

BTW I am not sure because I am legally female but I recall Cal law states that people have the right to use whichever bathroom fits their gender ID here is more info:

http://transgenderlawcenter.org/pdf/PIP%20Resource%20Guide.pdf

Quote
Anyway, you might not know if you pass, but believe me, if you don't pass....you'll know.

~Sara

Cool, thanks Sara.

I did not know about the Transgender Law Center and the Peeing in Peace document.

I had absolutely no clue that California offered so many protections as well as Los Angeles, although not as much as San Francisco.  I did not realize that CA had protections for bathroom use, although in reality passing would be nice and having a gender marker consistent with your outward and inner gender would be nice too.  I still have an 'M' on my driver's license.

I did not know that changing one's gender on one's driver's license in CA is as easy as it is.  I already legally changed my name a while ago, but did not realize that I could also change my gender.

CA Driver's License Gender Change:

CA DMV Form DL329 - Medical Certification and Authorization (Gender Change)

A psychologist or a doctor needs to sign the form.  My doctor would easily do that, as I have already had my doctor sign a similar form a couple of years back.  Sadly, I have to wait a bit on that, as the timing is not right (nothing to do with the law or CA, just me).

Thanks Sara.  You were a big help.

Oh, upon reading what you wrote, you are right.  In my own experience, no woman would smile at a strange man unless she wants to pick him up.  That just is not done from what I have observed.  That means that you are right.  I am not quite passing, but they are okay with it and acknowledging it.  That is cool.

I look forward to the day, when a guy does not stare back at me in the mirror or to anyone else.  It is happening, just slowly.

In my own experience, no woman would smile at a strange man unless she wants to pick him up.

I live in a metro area of a couple of million people, and where I work gets a thousand to two thousand people a night showing up.  I have women smile at me all the time.  I don't think that everyone of them wants to pick me up. 

First of all, if you are smiling, most people will smile back at you.

I would say that if another woman is smiling at you, then she is accepting you as just another female.

If a woman "reads" you there is a different vibe.

As to worrying about passing: Passing takes time, work, and luck.

HRT, surgeries, and becoming comfortable in our skins are integral to passing IMO. While one is going through the process of getting to the point of passing a good source of solace is the Serenity Prayer.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

Quote from: tekla on December 03, 2010, 10:21:06 AM


First of all, if you are smiling, most people will smile back at you.

This is so true. Just try it! put on a smile and walk around at work, shops wherever and people will smile right back at you, and even stop and chat. Then walk around the same place not smiling and see the difference.

Since I'm a whole lot happier in my self I tend to smile a lot. And I keep getting lots of nice conversations with the shop people and checkout girls, and it's not because I'm being read. Just people like to communicate with happy people.

IMO

Cindy

people like to communicate with happy people

Because unhappy people are bummers, depressing, often messy and no fun at parties.  So be happy.  If you're not.  Fake it.

Being happy is a journey.  Yup.  Let me just say that Kim Petres and I live in two different universes.  She has a loving caring family that totally accepts and supports her (North Pole) and I am on the South Pole.  I would not mind passing better and had more hair and stopped losing what I have.

I also need to learn how to be a woman and accept myself as such.  That sounds funny to say, but I spent many years being one way and feeling the other that it is hard to instantaneously put myself in the other box and feel like I belong.

Others seem to be okay, though.  I talked to one of the people in charge of the women's group at the temple where I go and they saw me as nothing but a female.  I was surprised.  Sadly, I can learn from them.  The problem that it is hard, when there are things perpetually reminding me that I am in the other box (penis, lack of hair, male forehead, voice, and non physical stuff, even lack of memories.  I can visualize myself wearing a skirt one day soon, so that is making progress.  I could not even comprehend really doing that a couple of years ago.

Sarah,
I think the most important thing is to be you and not to pretend or try to fit a role that you perceive is need to be a women.
You, I and allot of other people here at Susan's have for years try to do that in a role that is oppose of are real gender.
I am so tired of trying to be something I'm not.
And why have I been trying?
To make other accept me and like me and so that in the end I would be happy too.
Has it worked for me in the male role?
NO!
Not at all.
It has gotten me depressed to say the least.
So why do I think I can do the same thing in the oppose gender role.
Why do we think we need to do all required things to be a "women".
Who or whom is making up most of these requirements?
Is it you or me?  Maybe. I think I am guilty of that.

Oh please don't get me wrong.
I'm not talking about HRT and SRS and other thinks that can enhances who we are.

You have said that you already pass most of the time.
Why not be who you are and enjoy what you like.
I am and always have been a women even if I pretended to be a guy for way too many years.

Yes there are somethings we most do for our own protection
and so that we can get along with other.

But I think if we just stop .... pushing - pretending  -  trying to reach unattainable ever changing  requirements to be the gender we already are we can be happier than we ever have been. And maybe we will be accepted by other.

Sorry for spouting off. 
But I am just upset with myself.

I just need to stop trying so hard and keep failing .. to walk more like a women .. to talk more like a women ... to wear the right clothing in the right way ... to be an expert in all thinks female ...
I need to start living as me as I real am.
A women.

Jillieann

Hi Jillianne,

I agree with what you said that each of us should be who we are, nothing more and nothing less, whatever that is.  Life is a spectrum, or as Gene Roddenberry said so gracefully, IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations).

Sadly, life does not always throw us neat little problems that are easily solved and a nice straight path to follow.

In a nutshell, first is finances. 2010 was not kind financially.  That put the brakes on everything.  I do not want to go into details, but my partner is embarassed about me, possibly transphobic, "uber straight" to coin a phrase, and religiously brainwashed by the religiously extreme.  There are other topics too among which is wanting kiddies.  The list goes on and on.

I am myself, or try to be these days.  I am comfortable with myself, so no worries there.

Other women smiled at me all the time even before I started my transition. I don't think it has anything to do with me in particular. Men smiling at me has always been rare, but it happens occasionally. If somebody looks directly at me, I usually smile at them.

I take public transit every day. The way the trains are designed in this city makes it very difficult to avoid looking at somebody else at all times. It's almost comical because people (of both genders) are always trying to avoid sending messages by looking at each other for too long. For example, people try looking out the window, but that doesn't work either, because often two people will both look in the window and then see each other's reflection. I've never seen two people of either gender just maintain eye contact throughout. However, brief smiles are common. Also interesting is that it's incredibly rare for anybody to talk to each other. My experiences with public transit make it seem like some social experiment to try to avoid communicating through any means.