When I came out to my mom, she said she had never seen any hints of femininity in me as a child.  I mean, I was introverted and not into sports at all, but I didn't dress in girls' clothing or play with dolls or anything like that.  When I talk to my more supportive/open-minded friends about it, they say that just because I'm geeky instead of girly doesn't mean I'm not a girl.  I pretty much agree with that, but it's still annoying.  It worries me that my lack of "stereotypical girliness" (except in certain private settings...) will hurt me when it comes to things like getting permission for HRT, etc.  The fact that I'm sexually aligned towards women also hurts my case, at least when it comes to my family, who are basically some of the most ignorant people you could ever meet.

I was just wondering, are there any other transwomen on here who feel like they are at the less girly end of the spectrum?

You have hit the nail on the head. Gender is a spectrum, as is sexuality. a girly girl or a girly boy may seem to be similar but are totally different. A macho woman and a macho guy again may have similar interests and be completely gender different.

I think that is one reason we go to therapists. Sort out those sort of feelings and work through them.
And no one knows what it is like to be TG except another TG.

Cindy

I know just how you feel. I will admit to having been accused of being a little effeminate during my life, but never overtly girly. However, now that I am being who I really am, and not having to 'live up to expectations', I find myself being quite girly. For me it's just a matter of relaxing and allowing myself to act without the filter's I'd put in place to hide behind..

As to whether this will cause issues with me getting HRT, who knows.. In my last session, my therapist did ask me if I might be just a girly gay guy rather than being a woman. In reply, I paused briefly, said no, I am a woman. He asked how I was sure, and I asked him how he was sure that he was a gay guy and not merely a straight guy who was confused.. He was obviously not amused by the question but did concede the point..

As my psychologist (gg) said to me: I never played with dolls either...

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I think the people who think that we should have played with dolls when we were kids are usually the people who know nothing more about us than that we're 'born in the wrong body'.

Btw, as time goes by you may think of many more feminine characteristics of you when you grew up. It sometimes takes a while to remember.

When I came out to my family, I heard the same exact thing, namely that I did not show any signs as a child (wear female clothing, etc.).  Where was I going to get properly fitting female clothing at the time?  I was also trying to hide my gender.  I would let that comment slide that your mom made.  Gender is a spectrum anyways.  If you want girly things, then that will come in its own time.

You will not know your true sexual orientation until after you are near the finish line and happy with who you are.  Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things, so no worries there.

I can relate to that.. I was so afraid to let my true self show that I held a lot of it back. Even though I did I was still far from a guy guy and all my friends knew I wasn't "normal". Most gay jokes were pointed in my directly.. even though I've never came across as being like that it still happened.
My voice was always higher and questionable and in share houses with friends I was always the bitch/cleaner/complainer. Yet seen as a guy because of testosterone.
It built up like this with not having any outlet at all.. I started going out with a CD social group and that gave me a chance to open up more.. which led to a breakdown/coming out to my mum. I had shortest hair at the time because of work and in hindsight I wish I was strong enough to start making changes before coming out so my words reflected my appearance, but still acceptance went well enough. And like it's been said with time memories come back for some people and the ol' "oh yeah I remember that, it makes sense thinking about it".
I think acceptance really goes from love to understanding once HRT kicks in and everything develops better than what people may of initially thought it would. I can understand that for some seeing is believing.

I had the same thing - "But you never acted like a girl! You were such a typical little boy." "Mom - I hated any kind of weapons, even toys, I was afraid of half the things my friends watched on TV, and my favorite show was My Little Pony - I just didn't dare put it on." "Yes, but that's normal for little boys!"

it's a rare kid who's brave enough to defy convention, peers, and parents. mostly children just want to fit in and avoid pain and punishment. most children don't feel free to do whatever they want. childhood behavior means little without taking into account his or her environment.

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 02, 2010, 11:20:21 AM
it's a rare kid who's brave enough to defy convention, peers, and parents. mostly children just want to fit in and avoid pain and punishment. most children don't feel free to do whatever they want. childhood behavior means little without taking into account his or her environment.

Much better put than I managed.

Also, some girls are tomboys, and some boys are girly, and most of them don't turn out to be trans.

I can relate. From the time I was 8 I lived with my dad and my older brother. In other words surrounded by boys, so I really didn't dare ask for anything girlie like a Barbie, even though I really wanted one, because I knew my brother would pick on me endlessly about it, he picked on me anyway, little did my dad know that I would wear women's clothes when I went to my moms, even stole some underwear of hers, until she caught me. If I had a sister things may have been different and there probably would have been more clues. The point is I knew better than to really ask/do girlie stuff.

There was many clues that a more observant person would have noticed, but sometimes parents aren't that observant about these things. Humans have a tremendous capacity for self-deception and I think a lot of parents do it in order for their kids to fit how they think they should be.   

For the HRT thing, I hate that people who can give us the hormones don't believe it unless we are the stereotype of what a woman should be. True, not all of them do it that way, but a lot of them do. The best advice I can give is just go in and be your true-self, not the image that you have been putting on, to the best of your ability. Prove you have done your homework on the subject too.

Hi there! My mom says the same and I never dressed as a kid either. It's ok. I'm as girly as they come, frankly. I was just good at suppressing it growing up....heck I even suppressed the thoughts or feelings as much as I could such that I didn't know I was trans really except subconsciously.

For more on my story, see my Autotransography video series =P

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,84000.0.html

When I came out to my ex, she kept trying to tell me that woman wear tee-shirts and jeans, so I did not need to make any other changes.  She never could understand.

It is more than clothes.  It is more than looks. it is even more than mannerisms. 

Ohmigosh, I totally understand....

...the microscopically few people whom I've trusted enough to admit to them what my feelings are, well......without exception it's taken them totally by surprise because I've never, ever evinced any feminine sort of leanings. At least any visible ones. Ah, the power of expectations and trying to live up to what everyone thinks you ought to be because of the skin you happen to have to wear!! I really do hate that. 

I do have an add-on after reading other comments.  I did not wear dresses back then, :-(, but I played with dolls, watched Little House on the Prairie, a show mostly for and about girls (why would little boys like that), played with no boy-toys, hated doing and watching sports of any kind, disliked chess, and on and on.  Does that not give any signs?  I preferred and do what would be construed as girly things.

There were signs, just nobody paid attention to them.  They saw MALE with their EYES and that was all that the evidence that they needed, okay that and that I was born with a penis.  Had I worn a dress, they would think that I am a cross dresser or something.

My point is that there is more than one way to have shown the truth besides jumping up and down wearing a dress and proclaiming, "I am not a boy, but a girl."

This is a great topic.  There's nothing wrong with you, and you are who you are.  Whether you get approved for HRT, I believe, depends to a great extent on the ideas and possible prejudices that your therapist has.  If one therapist does not work out, go to another who is more empathetic.  Many T-gals have done that.

My therapist often told me I'm not like her usual T-girl clientele.  Most of them were all froofie-froofie, poofy-poofy.  Fine for them.  That's not me.  She approved me for HRT anyway though it took about 6 months of sessions.  She also started me on a low dose of estrogen without any androgen blockade.  I only started full-dose estrogen and an androgen blockade in the mid-to-late summer of 2010. 

I am a long way from being a girlie girl.  In some ways, I'm about as feminine as Axl Rose.  Doesn't bother me.  I like who I am.  Where am I on the spectrum?  Don't know and don't care.  I'm just me, and that's that, and it's more than good enough.

You're okay just the way you are.  Be yourself.  Love yourself.  Transsexuality is a self-diagnosis.  Think you're trans?  Then, chances are that you are.  Just be YOU!  Best of luck to you.   

Quote from: E on December 02, 2010, 11:25:30 AM
Also, some girls are tomboys, and some boys are girly, and most of them don't turn out to be trans.

And then again some boys are really Tomboy girls in disguise - and they are trans, but of course they don't stand out as odd, so it gets uber confusing and completely pointless to try and judge this by using external signs... and that is said by one of the rare few who did managed to defy conventions and express myself as a child.

The only guide is how you felt inside at the time which only you will know. So please don't let that kind of comment put you off.

My gender presentation isn't girly at all. I actually don't really like carrying around a purse (thought the one I have is cute as ->-bleeped-<-). I prefer tight jeans over a skirt any day. I got caught playing with Barbies as a kid though, and my oh my did I repress that part of myself. I expect my presentation to change over time, and fluxuate daily.

It is confusing to be a tomboy though- I went to Seattle's gender group christmas party last night in what I usually wear daily- a girls band t-shirt, tight-ass scenester pants and vans slip ons. No jewelry (though that will change. My only makeup is a bit of mascara and the stache' cover-up. I liked some of the dresses and uber-fem stuff I saw people wearing, but when i think about it I don't really have that strong of a desire to look uber fem at all.

I'm the kind of girl that's going to cut her hair short once i can pull it off post transition.

That is interesting.

I am a bit too lazy for makeup, maybe one day.  I have to learn, but then there is the time issue.

Now as far as clothing goes, I would wear a skirt or dress any day of the week over a pair of slacks.  Some shorts are nice as are some jeans, but mostly I would wear skirts and dresses.  Just goes to show you that gender is a spectrum and not two boxes.

@CindyJames: I agree so much.  I just hope that the therapist I go to understands that just because I am not girly by social standards doesn't mean I'm supposed to be in a male body x|

@kelly_aus: I am EXTREMELY girly when I am with my girlfriends and doing things like makeup and shopping.  I love not pretending to be a guy... the whole being manly thing is just an instinctive mask that is really hard to take off in public.  I loooooove what you said to that therapist ^_^

@Riannah: I think you're right... I have started to notice more and more girly attributes of myself that I ignored when I was making myself out to be "manly."  The people who really know me well were hardly even surprised.

@sarahla: I agree, I think I will let what my mom said just slide... Just because she didn't noticed any girliness doesn't mean any was there Plus not everyone fits the norm... and I've never been too normal Anyway, I know that I love girly things.  At least some... like pretty clothes and makeup for sure and cute stuff. 

@Muffin: I definitely got some gay/girly jokes aimed at me too... mostly because I was very shy and didn't know much about "manly" things... and a lot of my friends were girls.  Like you, I wish I had started making some physical changes before I came out, but it's too late now.  And by the time I am physically different in a lot of ways, I hope they will have accepted how I am to a greater extent.  I also agree that it makes a lot more sense looking back on my life... I couldn't stand doing sports and I never really felt like I "fit" in the male role, socially.  At the time I didn't really get it but it makes a lot of sense now.

@E: I know exactly what you mean! When I was a little boy, I hated sports, I was really shy and insanely afraid of physical violence, and I looooved Hamtaro although I never watched it when anyone was around - I didn't want them thinking I was "girly."  And what you said about tomboys and effeminate boys is just how I feel.  Just because I'm not extremely feminine according to social conventions doesn't mean I don't identify as a female.

@Forum Admin: you are so right.  Honestly, when I was a little kid I would never even *thought* of doing anything that was against the standard that was laid out for me.  I basically wanted to make my parents proud and do whatever they told me was right/"cool" for boys to do.  It wasn't until I realized that I was just watching my life go by instead of living it that I was on the way to realizing that I would rather live as a woman.

@themadwomyn: I have not yet been to a gender therapist so I do not know yet whether I will face one who is skeptical of me because of my lack of pink clothes and lace.  I will try to be myself as much as I can, but if it's between faking a little and not getting what I want... well, hopefully I can just go to another therapist.

@Jerica: I know what you mean.  I think I'm a lot more girly on the inside than I seem on the outside... I have always tried to blend in and not be noticed, so until I am a more convincing girl it's really hard for me to get myself to act girly in public.

@Janet Lynn: I agree, identifying as a woman comes down to more than anything that is on the surface.  It is an instinctive, deep feeling that everything that you are in your body is wrong.  At least for me.

@MissTina: *Exactly* how I feel.  At least the smart people tend to pick up pretty quickly that there is something "off" with me - often they think I am gay but really I am just a girl!!!

@Lacy Lynne: "Transsexuality is a self-diagnosis."  <-- Possibly going in my fave quotes

@rejennyrated: I am a tomboy (and geeky) girl in disguise

@alia: When I start going out in public as a girl I don't think I'll be overly girly either... but I'm not really sure.  I'll probably try lots of things

@EVERYONE: Much Love!  Thanks for all the advice <3 <3

my mom doesn't want to believe i'm a woman either and makes a point of getting me appointments with various different psychologists and psychiatrist under the pretense that it could help me and then HAS to tell them that i haven't been anything like a girl EVER! each and every psycho-whatever had to tell her that that doesn't mean anything and after just 1 session they are pretty certain i'm transsexual.
i mean, i've never been overtly girly, but neither boyish. more like just ... geeky as you said.
i wouldn't worry, your mom will see and have to accept that she didn't know you as well as she thought, and the therapist (if you don't have a terrible one) just needs to know that you are sure that you are a woman. heck, if i got my HRT go-ahead, i'm sure you'll get it too.