I keep wondering whether I am ready to try T or not.  Doctors and other folks say I'm not ready for it, and I should wait N years where N is some number that isn't important.  I'm uncertain myself because I don't see it as a magic bullet that will make me a guy or even make me happy.  It would just be the standard medication to treat feminitis   And some sort of treatment is critical for me right now.

Mostly for my own benefit I am writing up a giant list of what I think about the various effects T may have on me.  I worry about considering this because the standard response I get is that I can't pick and choose the effects I want.  Therefore, the logic is, I should just decide yes to T if I am a man, and no if I'm not sure.  But I don't know another way to decide whether I want it than map out what I think of the effects.  Here goes nothing...

Want:

• Bleeding stop- need it to happen, period. (har har)  I am on a birth control pill for it now, so theoretically it's gonna stop soon... but I'm a little uncomfortable with the mechanism.
• Subtle body changes- a pinch more shoulder, a tad less hip, a bit more masculine look.  Not a lot, just enough that I don't look distinctly female.
• Subtle face changes- I have a cute face now and I like that, but I would prefer a male cute face.
• Voice drop- I'm on the squeaky side now, but I don't want to go to the other extreme.  I hope I get to sing tenor.
• Dick growth- I like to think I don't care about size but I wish I could hold it in my hand.
• Appetite- I have none and it's a huge problem.  I have heard tales of increased appetite on T and I hope I get a bit of that.
• Increased strength- I struggle with everyday tasks because I am so god damn weak.  Somewhat weak would be okay with me.
• Toughness- I really wish I had a little constitution against minor injuries and temperature fluctuations.  Again, a little is enough.
• Height- I shrank almost an inch during my eating disorder so I think it's plausible that puberty 2.0 would bump me back up again.
• Feet growth- I have tiny feet no matter how you slice it.  I'm in boys' sizes right now, and likely would never break men's sizes, but hey, boys' shoes are cheap.

Don't want:

• Facial hair- hate it, and hate shaving too.  Even on my legs I end up covered with pimples, razor burns, etc.  It bothers me to the point where I would consider laser or electrolysis if it's the same with the whiskers.
• Baldness- my dad is balding, so it may or may not be in my genes.  Here's hoping for no.
• Acne- who would want that??  I already have some issues with it and it does affect me a little in the confidence department.

Irrelevant:

• Big muscles- that just seems silly especially at my size.  I am a scrawny geek whose idea of a workout is walking to the bus stop, so I'm not really afraid of getting buff by accident.
• Body fat distribution- I have almost none, my shape is basically determined by bone structure, so I don't expect to see much of a change.  
  
• Weight gain- I'm still uneasy about putting on weight but I know it would be good for me.
• Body hair- I think it's ugly, but it gets covered by clothes so whatever.
• Smell- I am fine with anything that isn't nasty, whether it's masculine or feminine
• Libido- whatever it is I'll work with it.  As it stands now mine is very flexible.

My initial assessment was that (except for the shaving issues) my desires/expectations from hormone treatment are sensible and achievable.  I've been quite clear that I would rather be Robin than Wolverine.  But the doctors I'm seeing think that I would be miserable with yucky hair and skin, and I should view T as a last resort.  Essentially, they want me to express strong desire for male secondary sex characteristics before they would prescribe.  

Thing is, I don't think I ever will really wish for masculinity.  My ideal is on the male side of androgynous, and I am not really interested in passing or being called sir.  Honestly I can't find much wrong with the appearance I have now, it's just minor changes I would like.  I'm happy to be small, cute, and super queer.  

So, what do you guys think?  Am I suited to a trial run at a low dose just to see what happens?  What should I be considering so I can decide if T is for me?  How did you decide?

Quote from: shiinee on December 02, 2010, 11:27:21 AM
I keep wondering whether I am ready to try T or not.  Doctors and other folks say I'm not ready for it, and I should wait N years where N is some number that isn't important.  I'm uncertain myself because I don't see it as a magic bullet that will make me a guy or even make me happy.  It would just be the standard medication to treat feminitis   And some sort of treatment is critical for me right now.
...
Thing is, I don't think I ever will really wish for masculinity.  My ideal is on the male side of androgynous, and I am not really interested in passing or being called sir.  Honestly I can't find much wrong with the appearance I have now, it's just minor changes I would like.  I'm happy to be small, cute, and super queer. 

So, what do you guys think?  Am I suited to a trial run at a low dose just to see what happens?  What should I be considering so I can decide if T is for me?  How did you decide?

T doesn't make you a guy. Either you are one or you aren't, and it sounds like you are more genderqueer than anything else. And the "good things" from T that you want are a hodge-podge of likely side-effect, possible effects, and not so likely ones. The dont want ranges far more in the likely realm.

It also sounds like your doctors and cohorts are concerned that because you have prior body issues, taking T may exacerbate these problems. I can only go by what you say, but as long as you are uncertain, I would say that you are not ready for an irreversible hormone. To decide,  I think you need to figure out  how  to experience being androgynous and/or genderqueer without T to see if you can live with that.

Why do you say some treatment is critical now? What is the problem?

T is extremely unlikely to make you grow. Your hands and feet may get slightly larger, but for most people this isn't noticeable and it's very rare to go up in shoe sizes.

To me it sounds like you want T for the wrong reasons. You don't sound very sure about it and wanting to try something that will permanently change your body doesn't sound like a good idea.

Good points, I didn't really cover what my basic feeling of transgenderness is like.

Quote from: Sean on December 02, 2010, 11:44:27 AM
Why do you say some treatment is critical now? What is the problem?

The problem is intense distress about my body and the ways where it doesn't match my identity.  It's been ramping up since I started puberty, and a few years ago started to surpass my desire to live.  Trying to hide, deny, and block out the feeling that I'm masquerading as a woman has made an enormous mess of my life. 

Quote from: Sean on December 02, 2010, 11:44:27 AM
I think you need to figure out  how  to experience being androgynous and/or genderqueer without T to see if you can live with that.

I have been out at my college as genderqueer for almost 4 years now, but I find I am nothing like the other people who identify that way.  None of them have a physical sensation of wrongness, strong feeling of alignment with another sex, intense desire to be another sex, or interest in medical transition. 

The essential things for me are top and bottom surgery, it is only the hormone treatment that I'm unsure about. 

I'm going to echo what Sean said.

Also, you could try taking T for a short run, like 6 months ... to get the subtle changes you're after but not go the distance with it. The thing with the period though is that's always going to be there - unless of course you get surgery. There are "side effects" to surgery though as well. I don't think anyone who hasn't had kids can just go to the doctor and demand a hysto. However, if you do get to the point where you get the trans diagnosis, that might make that possible. I'm not sure what the "qualifications" are for the surgeries like that.

It sounds like you're younger so you have plenty of time to figure things out. There may be things you have to deal with (like the period) until you do, but everyone has to deal with things they don't want to sometimes. That's just life. The more you live, the more you experience and start to understand yourself and your body.

if you do decide to go on T, which is not for me to judge, (i think the answer is in you and you'll have to find it for yourself)....
so if you should decide to go on T you could go with the gel, and just apply a low dose. I don't know if T is a requirement for surgery in your country but that way you would have better control of your changes. bytheway i believe that anyone who desires top and bottom surgery (and is thoroughly informed about the pain, the risks, the irreversibility) is not "just" genderqueer. And who likes hairloss?

Sevan was on the fence something fierce when it came to wheather or not ze was ready for T.
Ze doesn't fit the profil for FTM so the wory was T would be a bad idea perhaps but the desire to try it was overwhelming.
Sevan decided ze had to do a diagnostic trial run of T for a short time. We had 15 days of testim left over from when I took T. (long story here) By the time Sevan was at day 5 ze knew that ze would continue. The hope had been for hir and I that T would have been regected by hir mind and ze would find it to be terrible stuff. Unfortunatly it was not to be that way. (We had a proper doctors script in hir hands before ze ran out.) Sevan has a masculine brain. It works best on T. Ze is still androgyn identified and happily on HRT.

Only you can know if it is right for you. No doctor or therapist can know for sure.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys and cynthia .  You're right, it is only my decision to make - but I am grateful for all this food for thought.

Quote from: Kvall on December 02, 2010, 03:50:45 PM
If you have a hysto, you will have to be on either testosterone or estrogen.

You can get a partial hysto where they leave the ovaries.  I'm not sure if you'd still have to take hormones if that were the case.

I'm also trying to figure out whether or not to pursue T (I'm genderqueer/transmasculine), so take this with a grain of salt.

I do not think your desires and expectations are necessarily sensible and achievable.  As others have said, height and foot growth are very unlikely if you're over 18ish.  A low dose of T is unlikely to stop periods (according to this guy's documentation of his low-dose T experience: http://leotron.tumblr.com/), and increased strength and toughness also seem unlikely on a low dose unless you're on it for a very long time.  Edit: Oh, yeah, also, dick growth even on a high dose of T is rarely dramatic enough to "hold in your hand". . .

I think you can get a lot of the effects you want by taking a different hormone cocktail to stop periods, picking up an exercise program, and doing a little voice practice if you haven't already tried that.  I think doctors may think you don't understand that the risk (of getting effects you don't want and the general medical risks) may outweigh the benefit when there are alternate ways of getting some of the effects that you may not have tried.

You can't pick and choose what changes you get from T. Personally, I don't think anyone should have a "trial run" with hormones because there are several things that cannot be reversed once they change and you can't predict what they will do to your body.

Perhaps you should look into other ways to get the specific affects you desire. T isn't the only way to get the changes that you wish for, and what you want to get from T isn't even guaranteed should you start it. T affects everyone differently so how it affects you won't be known until you're actually seeing significant changes.

For more strength and those subtle changes in physique some exercise to get fit and then muscle training would probably give  you the best results (better than counting on T to make those changes as it can take a long time for fat distribution to change if you're not helping it along with a good workout routine).

For voice, practice singing to songs that push your range lower and just work at it alittle bit at a time you'd be surprised at the difference that can make.

For face changes the way you style your hair and present does affect how your face look so you may be able to work on that.

And you get the idea of what I'm saying. The main point is try and exhaust other options before turning to hormones and possibly making some changes that you really don't want and may have even more issues with than what you have now.

Nobody wants baldness or acne. Most cis guys aren't even all that enthralled by facial hair - they look at me like I'm crazy for even saying that I'm willing to deal with it (I don't want it exactly, but it comes with the package), and start regaling me with shaving horror stories.

If your doctors are waiting for you to tell them that you want to be a bald potbellied pizza-face with a patchy beard and back hair, they'll be waiting a long time. You should tell them that. Some people are happy looking like that, but most of us, like most cis guys, have a different male body ideal.

Are you a guy? Are you willing to accept the stuff that "comes with the package," to have the voice/hair/body type of the guy that your particular genetics dictate that you can be? For me, the answer was "yes." I don't want facial hair, I don't like body hair, and as I said nobody really wants baldness and acne. But I decided I was willing to take all of the above because they're part of having a male body, just as an MTF might be willing to accept cellulite and a higher body fat percentage because those things come with having a female body.

Just because you don't get to pick and choose doesn't mean you have to like everything on the list equally well. Or at all.

I personaly hate the lose of male strength but that isn't enough to make me throw away my syringes.

You take the good with the bad. We can't pick and choose.
Good point Kyril.

Looking over my original post I feel like I haven't explained my purpose very well.  I searched for known effects of T on FtM information sites and in the documented experience of those who have started on it, and I classified them based on whether that effect appeals to me.  It is not a list of reasons why I want to take T; I don't know right now if I want to take it or not.  

That said it is valuable to me to hear other guys' assessment of what changes are likely.  Ideally I would choose the best hormone treatment based on a rational assessment of the effects.  I want to be very careful that I don't decide on T "just" because I am a boy, because that is not a good rationale to me.  I am a boy no matter what hormones are in my body.  

Like many who have commented on my thread I have viewed T as a last resort because of the permanence of (some) effects.  At the time I got my GID diagnosis I decided to put T off and reconsider it further down the line.  Since I started to take birth control pills (estrogen & progesterone) at my doctor's urging, I feel particularly "wrong" and not myself.  I'm getting physical and emotional symptoms I'm very uncomfortable with.  That's the main reason why I am considering T again.  

Quote from: cynthialee on December 02, 2010, 01:36:01 PM
Sevan was on the fence something fierce when it came to wheather or not ze was ready for T.
Ze doesn't fit the profil for FTM so the wory was T would be a bad idea perhaps but the desire to try it was overwhelming.

This sounds a lot like me right now.  I don't fit the profile of an FtM either, since I'm not the sort who has always understood my gender and I'm not longing for a manly look.  My original assumption was also that T would not be right for me, but I can't put it out of my mind so long as there is a chance of feeling "right" on it.  

I might well be misunderstanding the situation, but right now I'm frustrated with the expectation that I should be certain I want T before I try it.  I don't know how I could ever be certain unless I get a chance to experience it.  I mean, I was looking forward to trying the pill, but my actual experience on it has been bad.  I will worry that T might also be a disappointing experience unless reality proves otherwise.  

Such was my motivation for posting-- thanks for all the thoughtful responses.  

Your clarification helps a lot.

You are right: hormones do not make the man. They just sometimes make the man feel better. There is no such thing as a "profile of the FTM" even though it may seem that way sometimes.

I think it sounds like you need to get off the birth control pills, asap. Those hormones (estrogen & progesterone) do affect different people in different ways, and it sounds like it is not working for you. (not uncommon at all)

As for certainty - I think we are all different in how we view certainty and risks and making decisions. I am absolutely certain about taking T for myself, but that doesn't mean I don't have ANY concerns about the effects whether short or long term. People who are willing to take HRT with permanent results either have some concerns that are clearly outweighed by the benefits or if they have 0 concerns, it is that they are overwhelmed by dysphoria or circumstance that they are unable to process/consider the negative effects, which is produced from the sheer intensity of the difficulty in living without the hormones.

I am simply certain that *right now* I am willing to take on the risks of negative consequences as a trade-off for experiencing the good consequences, and that if that calculus changes, I can change my mind and stop taking T. I also am ok knowing that if I ever stop taking T or wish I hadn't, it will be costly, challenging or on a rare occasion impossible, to 'change back' to how I was before. Any good health care practitioner will understand that this is within the range of healthy adult decision-making and behavior.

I'm not sure how you mean "try" & I think that's the area where you seem frustrated. Maybe it is just semantics and communication. Have you ever heard the expression there is no try, only do or do not? A lot of people are reacting to your comments about wanting to "try" and seeing it as being less than sure. In reality, you can either take or not take hormones. You can't "try" to take hormones. You will never be 100% certain that T is right for you without experiencing it, but you should be pretty darn sure that you think it WILL be right for you before you start, because there is no such thing as trying it out, to the extent the effects are permanent and sometimes fairly immediate. Maybe it would help to ask yourself: how sure am I on a scale of 1 to 10? why am I not sure? what would have to change for me to be less sure? to be more sure? That might help you figure out what it means to be certain it is the right step for you to take right now.Here is another way of making that less abstract:

To use kyril's awesome expression, I have no desire to be a bald potbellied pizza-face with a patchy beard and back hair. However, if my choice is to be that or to be the most beautiful woman in the universe, I'd still rather be that dude. I could exercise and work out. I could shave my face and wax my back. I could see a dermatologist for acne treatment. And I could learn to like bald or deal with it in other ways (hats, caps, rogaine, whatever). But I would still be a dude and I'd still have the *right* chemicals in me for my brain. The question is: are you ok if that happens to you and would you view that as being better than being a cute little genderqueer/girly-seeming person? if the answer is yes, then maybe you should proceed to T. If the answer is no, then you may not be ready.

I was under the impression that birth control pills regulated bleeding.  I haven't heard of any that stop it altogether.

Quote from: sej on December 06, 2010, 02:58:33 PM
I was under the impression that birth control pills regulated bleeding.  I haven't heard of any that stop it altogether.

Combined hormonal birth control, if taken continuously (i.e. without the placebo pills), generally eliminates bleeding.  There are also estrogen-free forms of birth control that are taken continuously to prevent periods.