Quote from: sarahla on December 03, 2010, 12:01:24 AM
On my short list would be Brassard and possibly others, not that I know who they are yet.  I keep thinking of Supporn.  Yet, my thoughts keep coming back to Dr. Gary Alter, as he is close to where I live.  Going there would mean no hotels or even long hospital stays.  There would be no transportation bills either, which all adds to cost.

That being said, it should be quality that is the most important, not price.

I think price is a consideration, I mean if it is a choice between getting a vagina now or never because of price then....

I think you need to go with your gut on this Sarah, it is a scary choice. But results from any surgeon are inconsistent. As long as you pick one that has a half decent reputation, you know their facilities are good and the after care is good then sometimes that is the best you can do. The rest is a little out of your hands.

Sarah said:

QuoteThe one difference between vulvas that I have seen surgeons create and those of natal women are seen in this photo from that site, namely the bottom of the vulva near the butt, where the bottom skin folds around.  I do not see that on trans women's photos that I have seen posted.

This is true of many but as has been mentioned there is a great variation because of anatomy etc.

Indeed, many natal women tear the membrane during childbirth and subsequently after remedial stitches tend to look similar to SRS.

However some results are similar to the picture Sarah linked.

See here: http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/SRS/Results.aspx?fn=SRS_1_15.2cm_2001_09_22_4.jpg

Caroline

Quite often natal vaginas that we see in magazines or videos have been Photoshopped, airbrushed or other types of photo or video manipulation, lighting, etc. have been employed.

Then too, natal females in the adult entertainment industry will often avail themselves of labiaplasty or other vaginal cosmetic surgery to obtain that "designer vagina" look.

Conversely, the neo-vaginas that we see on porn sites are usually of a woman who has recently been operated on, hasn't fully healed, and most likely hasn't had any of the afore-mentioned cosmetic surgery.

I have to say that nothing ticks me off more that the the phallo-centric "->-bleeped-<-s" on  porn forums condemning post op women in an effort to ensure a steady supply of penises for their fetish fulfillment.

I really get upset because I know the truth, and the truth is that our vaginas can and do look just as good as the vaginas of our natal counter-parts.

Another concern is that of a lack of g-spot and self lubrication, although some trans women do self lubricate.  That might be because some surgeons transplant a gland that secretes liquid.

Question:  Is it possible for transwomen to get stimulated (come?) through vaginal stimulation?  Yes, I know that many women cannot reach orgasm that way but many can.  I know that the penile skin gets inverted, even in Suporn's technique, but are nerve endings transfered over as well, so that what a transoman feels is similar to what a natal woman feels?  (Okay, I know.  There is no way to answer that question.)

I knew that some women tear a membrane during child birth and get that stapled up.  I just did not know which one it was.  That sucks that it is that one.  That makes for a nice looking vagina.

Quote from: sarahla on December 04, 2010, 01:29:07 AM
Question:  Is it possible for transwomen to get stimulated (come?) through vaginal stimulation? 

I've read info that states we end up with more nerve ending inside so in fact we have a greater chance of orgasm through penetration, though... no doubt varying with technique and all the other variables

Quote from: sarahla on December 04, 2010, 01:29:07 AM
I knew that some women tear a membrane during child birth and get that stapled up.  I just did not know which one it was.  That sucks that it is that one.  That makes for a nice looking vagina.

Frenulum labiorum pudendi I've read that a lot of surgeons can't construct it because it just gets ripped open from dilation which needs to be done too soon after for it to heal. I have heard of some US surgeons being able to do it and others that can do it as part of a revision.

Quote from: Muffin on December 04, 2010, 02:28:16 AM
I've read that a lot of surgeons can't construct it because it just gets ripped open from dilation which needs to be done too soon after for it to heal. I have heard of some US surgeons being able to do it and others that can do it as part of a revision.

Or simply from lack of materials (since most surgeon's priorities are in fabrication of vaginal depth, not vulva aesthetics). In general, it's done as part of labiaplasty because if it was done during initial surgery, it would be more stitches then skin (leading to difficulty dilating and maybe tissue death).

Also known as bulbourethral glands, the small pea-shaped structures take their name from the British anatomist William Cowper, who provided an early description of the glands. The cowpers gland is an exocrine gland, which means that it secretes its product into ducts — in this case, the male urethra. This is the opposite of the function of an endocrine gland, which secretes hormones directly into the bloodstream.

The cowpers gland plays an important role in sexual intercourse. When a man becomes sexually aroused, the cowpers gland begins to secrete pre-ejaculate fluid. This fluid is a clear lubricating mucus that is similar in composition to semen.

Amounts of pre-ejaculate produced varies greatly — some men produce a lot of pre-ejaculate fluid, while some cannot produce any at all. Producing too much or too little pre-ejaculate fluid generally is not a cause for great concern. More pre-ejaculate fluid typically is produced when a man has not been sexually active for a long period of time. The cowpers glands themselves shrink gradually as men age, resulting in lower levels of pre-ejaculate secretion.

Pre-ejaculate fluid created by the cowpers gland has three functions. The first function is to neutralize the acid levels in the urethra so that sperm can pass through it. Sperm do not thrive in acidic environments, and the urethra often contains traces of acidic urine. Likewise, pre-ejaculate fluid deposited in the vagina during intercourse can help to lessen the vagina's naturally high acidity, thus increasing the longevity of the sperm.

The second function of pre-ejaculate fluid is to remove any foreign material from the urethra before intercourse. A final function is to provide lubrication for sexual intercourse. The Bartholin's glands in women also provide a mucoid substance that aids in lubrication.

Quote from: sarahla on December 04, 2010, 01:29:07 AM
Another concern is that of a lack of g-spot and self lubrication, although some trans women do self lubricate.  That might be because some surgeons transplant a gland that secretes liquid.

The Cowper's gland remains in place and (in some cases at least) remains active after surgery. Quite handy acctually 

QuoteQuestion:  Is it possible for transwomen to get stimulated (come?) through vaginal stimulation?  Yes, I know that many women cannot reach orgasm that way but many can.

Certainly! I have never had a clitoral orgasm - they are all vaginal and G-spot.

Quote... so that what a transoman feels is similar to what a natal woman feels?  (Okay, I know.  There is no way to answer that question.)

Actually there is a way to answer it. I have had a few very close women friends over the years and we have discussed the feelings during intercourse. From the cis women I have talked to, feeling is centred around the vaginal opening and they have little to no feeling inside aside from pressure or fullness. Personally, the sensitivity extends through the entire depth and breadth of the vagina - again, quite handy! 

QuoteThat sucks that it is that one.  That makes for a nice looking vagina.

I believe what people are referring to is the vestibule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulval_vestibule) which tends to be deeper and more pronounced in genetic females. Of course this isn't a big deal unless a person plans on making a living by exposing themselves publicly LOL!

Dr Suporn in Thailand doesn't like doing 2nd stage vaginal makeovers....I know because I consulted with his clinic re this, during May.

He's expensive too, and he pushes you right back on a timeline as he puts his own SRS FFS work first... so I was looking at the end of 2011 earliest!!

And if he's not really keen to do it, and will only do so if he personally sees you... then that would put me off for starters, which is why I opted instead for Meltzer in Scottsdale... during August.

Who was more than happy (a) to enter into serious dialogue with me (without a visit first) and (b) work with me on getting a great result, when I flew out there from the UK.

Even within 6 weeks post revision I was once more orgasmic.... and the result is much, much better aesthetically than how Michael Royle left me in 1992 when I had my original Op.

Though initially I was not too pretty due to the massive swelling, purple bruising and hundreds of neat sutures needed....so it was a time of high-stress for sure.

But as I can now orgasm from either external play or internal probing and my overall shape is far more realistic than previous, and the sound of my peeing is more girlie like, due to a deeply buried urethra....just atop my vaginal opening....

I'm more than happy now with all that's transpired... and I'm still in stealth mode with my b/f.....

But results do vary for every single one of us.... there's sadly no guaranteed result.

And no one questioned me previously..... so your fear of a non CIS result can be self—held rather than one of working reality...?

Most chaps are happy with a place to nestle that's warm-n-wet.... to put in bluntly...

And I would imagine most of us can do that admirably....

If the Dr is even half-competent.....lol

Hi Cruelladeville,

Thanks for the response.  How is it that your boyfriend did not notice the change from before and after, not to mention the swelling and all the other stuff since then.

Also, is not the lack of any self lubrication a tip-off?  As I understand things, most TS women do not self lubricate line a CIS gendered woman, although some women with some SRS physicians claim that they do, because the doctor kept whatever gland is responsible.  Sadly, I do not remember the doctors name which does that or if that is just a case by case result or every one.

Does your boyfriend not notice the scar lines?

Yes, I am the first to say that I am like Alice, looking from outside the looking glass trying to imagine what it is like on the inside.

It is funny how much depends on whether one has an innie or an outie.  That piece of anatomy and the corresponding internals are so small and not easily visible and yet are responsible for so much, even something as simple as peeing.

How was peeing different before than now?  You said that your peeing was not female like before, but your first surgeon gave you a female urethral, so I am not following.  I am definitely curious on the details of "more girlie like".  Interesting.

I am glad that you are happy with his results.

Michelle Hayden:  Wow!  Thanks for answering the question and with great detail.  :-)

Northern Jane:
Hopefully, I will remember this topic, when the time comes to talk with a surgeon when that will be.  I have to ask about that as that is important.

Quote
Certainly! I have never had a clitoral orgasm - they are all vaginal and G-spot.

The g-spot is the wrinkly skin about an inch or two inside the vagina at the top part.  It is the underside of the clitoris / gland.  I was reading about it.  Women have that, but how can a trans woman have that, as that structure does not exist.  Surgeons, even Dr. Suporn, uses penile inversion.  Do they actually construct a g-spot?

How is it that you could never have a clitoral orgasm?  It is nice to hear that they are vaginal.

If you do not mind me asking, who was your surgeon?

yeah, I understand about "only if making a living publically," but it is still nice to have a good looking vulva.

I have heard the same thing when asking a CIS gendered woman that they do not feel the penis on the inside of their vagina, only the fullness and pressure.  They feel it at the opening.  Maybe trans women have an advantage.

Is it possible for the cowpers gland in 40+ women to lubricate sufficiently for intercourse?

By the way, I really do not think it a good idea to be in stealth mode with a boyfriend and hide it.  He might be transphobic and get angry if he finds out later.  I have heard bad stories.

Thanks all!

In answer to yer questions....

*How is it that your boyfriend did not notice the change from before and after*

I don't live with him.... our usual routine is weekends together....

And I spent a full month is the US after my labiaplasty....and also due to my lipo I got to wear a full body corset.... I had three to rotate, which for best results need to be worn for 6 weeks....so I wasn't in a position to have sex for over 8 weeks...or so.

He also knew I was having a girlie gyno op....and knew it was invasive, and as he loves me, and was used to his ex wife being in childbirth, knows full-well things can and do change. So he's handled me with extreme care since.

(He's a father of multiple children so well used to sensible adult compromise)

So he has no reasons to doubt me and why should he? And as to why I live in stealth that's not for you or any others to judge.... and I would suggest you wait and see what you think once your reach a stage where you pass (consistently) so well that no one ever doubts you?

I don't have any scar lines as Toby's handiwork in my case is ab/fab, or covered by hairlines.... I heal fast too, always have... which I hope will sit well with me come my FFS come Jan.

I've always had no issue with self lubrication – ever.... this hasn't changed, though currently my female ejaculation has abated.... but that's not a worry so much for me... as it wasn't an every time deal..... and it may well come back....lol

So men don't like it....anyways....

As to peeing....

I had a left-side internal scar issue from the original 1992 surgery that was affecting my urethral line, Toby picked it up immediately on examining me.... and said that it was way to long.... and he could reposition the opening deep down where it needs to be....

And voiding for me now has the high-pitched hiss, which it didn't before.....

Finally, many men are not gynaecologists, and not all are porn addicts spending hour upon hour watching and picking over in detail ladies slits bits. Some prefer to 'do' rather than watch...

And my b/f's an accountant not a doctor.....but I'll tell yer one thing more....he really appreciates the fact that I've got my fab hip-to-waist ratio back....and am much more curvier now on my return from my tweaks...in the USA.

So I've benefited in that way too, already....in that he's been far more hands on when I stand in front of him in the kitchen, than before I went away....

My vagina's also tighter too, but still very flexible.... so another bonus there....lol

But then I'd had one for over 18 years, so didn't need to dilate immediately....which was a bonus....in the immediate after-care phase...while in Arizona.

And good luck with your personal journey too, if you do go for it.

Quote from: Cruelladeville on December 04, 2010, 11:28:44 AM

Most chaps are happy with a place to nestle that's warm-n-wet.... to put in bluntly...

And I would imagine most of us can do that admirably....

Very well put Cruelladeville, thats always been my experience, guys are salves to the pussy, when I broke up with my first boyfriend I started dating another guy who had no idea I was trans, I remember having a little scaring at the time but he never commented on it, guys are like that, they don't pick over the details on a ladies girly bits, if the guy is a gentleman he won't go there.
Finally I was dating my Husband for over a year and he'd no idea I was trans, he knows my history now but overall Im still living in stealth, just an ordinary housewife.
I wish you the best on your journey to womanhood Sarahla, its a very rewarding experience.
Pauline

I

Quote from: sarahla on December 07, 2010, 12:37:29 AM

By the way, I really do not think it a good idea to be in stealth mode with a boyfriend and hide it.  He might be transphobic and get angry if he finds out later.  I have heard bad stories.

Thanks all!

Let me just say, I really disagree with this statement. I've lived in "stealth" (I really hate that word btw, it makes me think of fighter jets ) for the last several years. I date quite often, and I only even consider bringing up my anatomy & history until the third date (minimum) AND if AND only if, I see a future with the guy in question. Its really no one's business but my own. Say if a male were sterile, had a vasectomy or a female had a hysterectomy or other cosmetic or reconstructive procedure, I doubt they'd bring it up on the first or second date? It just doesn't happen.

I've heard some horror stories too, but most stem from lack of good judgement and exercising caution than anything else. Also the ease at which you "pass" and level of comfort and confidence you have and exude will also shape your opinion. And as with all things, your mileage may vary.

Quote from: JennX on December 07, 2010, 07:50:13 PM
Let me just say, I really disagree with this statement. I've lived in "stealth" (I really hate that word btw, it makes me think of fighter jets ) for the last several years. I date quite often, and I only even consider bringing up my anatomy & history until the third date (minimum) AND if AND only if, I see a future with the guy in question. Its really no one's business but my own. Say if a male were sterile, had a vasectomy or a female had a hysterectomy or other cosmetic or reconstructive procedure, I doubt they'd bring it up on the first or second date? It just doesn't happen.

I've heard some horror stories too, but most stem from lack of good judgement and exercising caution than anything else. Also the ease at which you "pass" and level of comfort and confidence you have and exude will also shape your opinion. And as with all things, your mileage may vary.

I have to say I agree with everything you say there JennX, but stealth is very much an individual choice, everybody's circumstances are completely different, since I joined Susans I posted about ''stealth'' many times, when I see a thread on ''stealth'' its just a case of ''here we go again'' anyway heres just yet another link where I posted on it before https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70287.msg494196.html#msg494196  maybe I should change my user name to ''stealth pauline''

Quote from: sarahla on December 07, 2010, 12:37:29 AMThe g-spot is the wrinkly skin about an inch or two inside the vagina at the top part.  It is the underside of the clitoris / gland...... Do they actually construct a g-spot?

Check out "Female prostate" on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-Spot - I think that will provide your answer.

It is not "constructed". I had surgery with Dr. Biber in 1974 and I did NOT have a G-spot until many years later. I think it developed as my anatomy settled into a more normal female form.

QuoteHow is it that you could never have a clitoral orgasm?

It beats me! It feels GREAT to have the clitoris stimulated but not as erogenous as stimulating the labia minor, vaginal opening, and nothing else is even close to G-spot stimulation.

QuoteIs it possible for the cowpers gland in 40+ women to lubricate sufficiently for intercourse?

I don't know but something provides lubrication even decades after surgery.