My gender therapist had a rule that SHE would not acknowledge us (read: clients) in public because there are lots of people who don't want anyone to know they go to a therapist.  If you spoke to her first, then fine, but she would not seek you out or say hello unless you initiated it.

But there was never any rule for those of us in her group.  In fact the group now socializes quite a bit in public.


Jay

 A group I used to go to had this rule where it basically said if you see someone from there don't go "Hey your that gay person from the gay group!" Simply put don't out the other person and that's how I feel about the trans thing. Would I love to meet another trans person? Sure as long as they don't out me to everyone else.

As for acknowledging someone else I just make sure to smile and nod. I leave it up to them if they want to talk. 

bye

I don't believe that being in a minority group automatically means that I am expected to associate with those of my group nor should others in that group assume inclusion in my social circle. I am in general a social and courteous person but too often people assume and expect familiarity where there is none. I am not deliberately stealth nor am I deliberately visibly trans. I simply am who I am and someone may know or not know and it is irrelevant.

Last night I pulled into a gas station to get a beer at nearly 2 am in a rough neighborhood (I was carrying weapons in case anyone is worried). When I was trying to get out of my car, the door opened to the car next to me preventing me from opening mine. A woman exited that vehicle and I immediately picked up on that she was trans due to the broad shoulders. Instead of showing courtesy she continued to stand there not paying attention. I had to open my door a few inches and say excuse me. She didn't pay attention and I had to say it louder in a much more male voice. She barely moved to the point where I had to be extremely close to her to get out of the car. My defensive alarms pretty much went off at this point (it is kind of suspicious behavior). She then says "Hey sister" in a way as if she knows me. Then she reaches toward me with her arm and I withdrew asking her "Excuse me, do I know you?" "Um, no. I'm (can't remember name). What's your name?" "Britney." She extended a hand and I shook it. Then she asked me if they would ID for alcohol and I said I don't know. She then says "C'mon, let's go check it out" as if we've been friends for years. There were several gangbanger-looking men standing around watching us but from a safe distance. She then started to give me a side hug as we were walking into the store. I withdrew again and said, "Look I'm sorry but I don't know you and I'm just here to get my beer and leave." She wasn't rude back but just ignored me at that point. As I'm heading into the doorway of the store, she turns to them and says "Hey boys" and then went into the store.

Personally I think I was rude but so was she. She didn't respect my space for starters and didn't respect my privacy either. Simply because we are both trans led her to assume that I'm automatically her acquaintance or friend. Not the case. I believe she was a prostitute due to her attire and the way she greeted those men. I cannot think of any normal woman or transwoman who would greet strange men at a convenience store late at night. As much as I like to be nice, you have to be careful. I didn't know who she was or what she was going to do. She could have just gotten out of prison, she could have started something stupid with the men in the parking lot putting me in danger, and she could have been planning on stealing or robbing that store. If I'm seen as someone friendly to her then I will be accused of being involved in the crime. There is an old and true saying, "Good fences make good neighbors." I think a smile, nod, and a friendly hello is good when we encounter another preson who may be trans. We may do the same to a non-trans person as well just out of courtesy. Anything more than that is violating boundaries.

bye

She didn't respect my space for starters and didn't respect my privacy either.
YOU ARE OUT IN PUBLIC! - there is no 'privacy' in a public situation, by definition.  You are very confused about what those concepts really mean and how they apply to real life.

get a beer at nearly 2 am in a rough neighborhood
Because, as it turns out, nice neighborhoods are not selling beer right up until closing time, nor do the bars open first thing in the morning either.  Want to find the most skid-row area of a town?  Easy, just mapquest the location of all the bars that open at 6am, where most of them are concentrated, there you are.

I withdrew again and said, "Look I'm sorry but I don't know you and I'm just here to get my beer dope and leave."
FIFY.  Anybody who is out in sketch areas, looking for beer at closing time is not looking for beer, they are looking for dope.  It's just that their dope ain't smoked, and it's made by Anheuser-Busch.¹

I cannot think of any normal woman or transwoman who would greet strange men at a convenience store late at night.
Whatever a 'normal transwoman' is.  So, because she is there at closing time you assume she's a ho?  Why not just assume she's another drunk looking for her dope fix before they close down the candy store for a few hours, or, pretty much: just like you are?

Anything more than that is violating boundaries.
I'm beginning to think that you might need to finish life at home in your spare time.

1. Why do you think the largest money contributers to anti-marijuana legalization efforts are beer companies, with A-B at the top of the list?  It's for sure not because they are worried about your health.

Quote from: tekla on November 23, 2010, 09:18:03 AM

YOU ARE OUT IN PUBLIC! - there is no 'privacy' in a public situation, by definition.  You are very confused about what those concepts really mean and how they apply to real life.

This is why I'm going to ask Phyllis Frye, brand spanking new out TG Texas Judge, to issue me a  permanent restraining order against "The Public at Large."

None of you will be allowed to post within five posts of my posts.

No, actually there are laws regarding privacy and personal space. Some of those fall under harrassment and assault and disorderly conduct. You weren't there and have no business making assumptions about what I know or don't know about the neighborhood I was in. I don't care if you are in a nice church, a run-down-bar, or in a public street there are certain social/cultural expectations of personal space and privacy and some of these are backed up by laws. For instance, she was already way too close for my comfort level. I already withdrew when she tried to touch me the first time and withdrew a second time. No laws broken here but certainly very improper social behavior among strangers. Had I actually asked her to give me more space and not touch me and she did not obey my request, I could have had her arrested for disorderly conduct and/or assault. As to privacy laws it is true that in a public space you can't guarantee that no one will see you or converse with you but you still have the right to refuse a social interaction. If she had started asking me personal questions and I told her I wasn't interested and walked away had she continued to bother me I could have had her arrested for harrassment and disorderly conduct. I did explain to her that I was just getting my beer and leaving indicating that I was not interested in any further social interactions. I am not required to socialize with someone or continue to have to listen to them simply because I'm in a public space. If you ask someone to leave you alone and they don't stop, it is criminal harrassment.

Anyway, this brings me to another topic. Both trans people and the non-trans public often do not respect the privacy of trans person's bodies both socially and physically. Time and time again another trans person or non-trans person who knows I'm trans will immediately come out and ask me inappropriate personal questions such as if I'm pre-op, post-op, had breast augmentation, am on hormones, plan on going all the way, etc. They assume that such questions are normal and appropriate. Unless from a trusted friend or solid acquaintance, they are not appropriate questions. Imagine yourself walking up to a genetic woman and asking her if she recently had her period, if she is still fertile, if she is post menopause, has had her hystorectomy, etc. Imagine walking up to a man and asking about the size of his penis, if he is fully functional, if he is taking medication for erectile dysfunction, etc. Such questions would be so inappropriate you would probably be fired if you asked them in a workplace, you'd be asked to leave public places, and may even be arrested if done to strangers on a public street for harrassment. There are things that are simply not acceptable but sadly when it comes to trans people the rules don't apply.

The worst are outright physical assaults and sexual assaults which again are seen as acceptable against trans people while never tolerated against a non-trans person. Sadly these are done against trans people often by other trans people. I have had plenty of trans people go right for my breasts to see if they are real without asking. I've had them ask to see my genitals and even go for them. If you went up to a genetic woman and did that you would be arrested.

So yes, trans people have a right to a certain level of personal privacy and personal space not only ethically but legally. And any person on this board who thinks otherwise is not trans-supportive at all and will be reported. I'm sick and f'ing tired of being treated like a freak often by my own kind. Just because I am trans does not give you the right to ask about my sexual organs or touch them nor does it give you the right to be in my company. Period.

Quote from: Britney_413 on November 23, 2010, 02:18:07 AM
She then says "Hey sister" in a way as if she knows me. Then she reaches toward me with her arm and I withdrew asking her "Excuse me, do I know you?" "Um, no. I'm (can't remember name). What's your name?" "Britney." She extended a hand and I shook it. Then she asked me if they would ID for alcohol and I said I don't know. She then says "C'mon, let's go check it out" as if we've been friends for years.

Keep in mind that women have different personal space boundaries regarding men and women. Whether trans or not, she read you as a fellow sister. Also, sounds like alcohol was involved, thus changing ways in which people interact.

Z

Quote from: tekla on November 23, 2010, 09:18:03 AM
FIFY.  Anybody who is out in sketch areas, looking for beer at closing time is not looking for beer, they are looking for dope.  It's just that their dope ain't smoked, and it's made by Anheuser-Busch.

Wow, really? I used to go downtown (definitely not a high-class area) around 1:30 a.m. to watch all-night movies (usually regular R movies but occasionally some X), have a couple of slices, and occasionally indulge in a beer.

Oh, yeah, forgot to say that I was a night owl, and I worked the night shift. So at the same time of the night, I would also shop for groceries, run my laundry at a 24-hour laundromat in a "sketchy" area, and even go to the beach.

I've seen a few in public, and a few live in my apartment building. They do no pass, nor seem to be overtly trying, but everyone seems to like their bubbly personalities including myself.


Prob the most emotional time for me on that trip was when a young post FFS girl asked me if I have had FFS in the past. But even with all the swelling I could see her nearly break down when I replied solemn "no". Makes me guilty for not white lying a yes to this day as I know she was likely very emotional from the whole ordeal, I'm sure she must be very beautiful now.

What the hell? How is this even so damn complicated? Ever heard of the Golden Rule?

If you're trans and you see me in public and you don't already know me, leave me the hell alone. Don't look at me, don't smile at me, don't say "hi" to me, don't "try to treat me extra-special" to show some warped kind of "solidarity." Just let me go on living my life.

When strangers make it clear that they have clocked me, well I'm not a cutter, but at times like those I can understand the appeal of going home to a nice cold razor blade. Instead I just go home and scowl at every feature that genders me male in other people's eyes and cry in my beer for a while.

Seriously, back the hell off.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on December 03, 2010, 04:04:51 AM
What the hell? How is this even so damn complicated? Ever heard of the Golden Rule?

If you're trans and you see me in public and you don't already know me, leave me the hell alone. Don't look at me, don't smile at me, don't say "hi" to me, don't "try to treat me extra-special" to show some warped kind of "solidarity." Just let me go on living my life.

When strangers make it clear that they have clocked me, well I'm not a cutter, but at times like those I can understand the appeal of going home to a nice cold razor blade. Instead I just go home and scowl at every feature that genders me male in other people's eyes and cry in my beer for a while.

Seriously, back the hell off.

That is primarily one of the reasons why I would not approach another trans person in public.  It's ALWAYS disheartening to get clocked.  No matter who did it.

If we meet somewhere like a trans meeting, that's different, but in public, no. 

-Sandy

It's not only disheartening, it's also misleading. The fact that trans people can read one another doesn't speak very well to how someone is passing.

Just because you can read someone, doesn't mean that most people can. So not only might it make the other person feel bad, it also may make them think they don't pass as well as they do.

Oddly enough, I don't know if I've met/noticed any other trans people.  Then again, I'm from a very liberal town where a good number of people just kinda dress how they like, so it's possible that I have and never noticed.  I'm pretty darned social and would probably want to chat if I did, but I'm sure it'd be possible to have a decent conversation without mentioning that I read them as trans.

I have been thinking about making and wearing a button from the trans pride flag colors.  (I feel the symbol is a bit too much for me at this point). 

My thought is that someone might see it some day and know that they are not alone.

Quote from: bearded on December 07, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
I have been thinking about making and wearing a button from the trans pride flag colors.  (I feel the symbol is a bit too much for me at this point). 

My thought is that someone might see it some day and know that they are not alone.

That may be good for two reasons:

A) As mentioned... To let other trans people know they are not alone... So many of us feel alone and isolated at times

B) To give a signal that "Hey... you can talk to me"... I can just imagine how many folks like me who live in a rather isolated area and are dieing to have other trans people to talk to... Maybe not at the place they meet (grocery store... etc.) But maybe exchange info. and get together later

Quote from: Sean on December 03, 2010, 09:15:45 AM
It's not only disheartening, it's also misleading. The fact that trans people can read one another doesn't speak very well to how someone is passing.

Just because you can read someone, doesn't mean that most people can. So not only might it make the other person feel bad, it also may make them think they don't pass as well as they do.

That, and what if you were wrong and the person you approached turned out to be cis?

Either way, it would probably be take as an insult.

Quote from: Alexmakenoise on December 07, 2010, 07:21:31 PM
That, and what if you were wrong and the person you approached turned out to be cis?

Either way, it would probably be take as an insult.

I really hate when people say this, however true it might be, because it pretty much suggests that to be visibly gender variant is equivalent to being hideous.  I've even heard people say, in a misled attempt to be supportive, "What if she's not trans, but just a really ugly woman?"

 

Quote from: Alyssa M. on December 08, 2010, 01:36:57 AM
I really hate when people say this, however true it might be, because it pretty much suggests that to be visibly gender variant is equivalent to being hideous.  I've even heard people say, in a misled attempt to be supportive, "What if she's not trans, but just a really ugly woman?"

 

I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to imply anything like that.  Really, I just meant to point out that when you approach a stranger about something personal, it is often taken as an insult, for many different reasons.