Hi everyone,
i'm a 51 year old married man who has met a transsexual woman online, she is also married, but things are starting to get serious between us. We've met a few times now and managed to have one night together when we made love like i have never known before.
It's difficult and we dont want to hurt our partners but our feelings are getting stronger for each other.
A few months back I knew nothing of transgender issues and if i was asked i would have recoiled in horror at the suggestion of entering a relationship with a mtf woman. Not now. I am totally besotted with my beautiful friend.
If things continue at the rate they are going we will face difficult life changing decisions.
What would i be letting myself in for ? How would my children react, parents etc ? This would be the hardest thing I could imagine but the benefits would surely outweigh the prejudices i would face, wouldnt they ?

Quote from: ponty on December 10, 2010, 06:38:32 PM
What would i be letting myself in for ?

an ugly divorce due to your cheating ways.

I so want to be your wife's divorce lawyer.

You shouldnt be cheating on your wife but I imagine you know that already.
If this is serious you need to come clean with your respective spouse's and let the chips fall where they will.
You have violated your wedding vows and your wife will be devastated but it is what it is.

Ok, i know I, or we , shouldnt be doing this. Point is though, it has happened.

We can't help it. Maybe we both aren't in the best of relationships. Maybe we should grow up and leave each other and be miserable in sham marriages. I don't know.

Anyone who goes through a relationship breakdown is in a stressful place. I just know that the situation surrounding our new relationship has its own complications over and above most.

My heart is telling me to pursue my new relationship, my head is saying I'm an idiot.

OK, so you met someone, hit it off, and are experiencing some confusion.

How long have you been in this marriage? Is it on the rocks? Is this something you'd be prepared to lose over something that may not have any real permanence?

Is your wife at all open to the idea of an open marriage? If not, are you prepared to take a life together and taint it with deceit?

Your responsibility to your relationship with her, and with your children, should be a significant consideration regardless of your other passions.

Think long and hard about these things, and have some perspective.

Ponty, you are apparently confused between fantasy and reality.  Your wife, your marriage - that's reality.  Your illicit affair, that's fantasy.  Sorry, I must be blunt.  That relationship has no weight to it, no challenges.  The most challenging thing about it is making sure no-one finds out, but that's also part of the thrill, isn't it.

So, you're bored.  So is she, obviously.  Your wife doesn't thrill you anymore.  Hey, welcome to life.  Maybe you're thinking "Is this all there is?"  Well, only if you let it be, but unless you have WORKED tirelessly, for at least as long as you've already been married, to salvage your relationship with your wife, and can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say "I have done all I can," then you have NOT earned your way out of that marriage.  And the time factor doubles (at least) if there are children involved.  You owe this not only to your wife, but also to yourself.  You need to realize that unless you can conduct yourself with integrity, you won't be able to respect yourself, and that is ultimately the most important thing.

You have chosen to post this in an area where pretty much everyone is ABOUT respect, integrity, and being true to themselves.  You can do no less.

Men don't 'earn' their way out of a marriage, they 'pay' their way out.

Oh man, really? You screwed around on your wife, and then posted on an internet board for advice?

You're either a troll, or a person that's about to get taken to the cleaners by your wife's divorce attorney. Either way, justice served.

Whether you should or shouldn't take things further with your friend is entirely up to you. We can't tell you what to do, or how people that we've never met are going to react to your choices... But I'm willing to bet it will be very, very ugly. Is it worth it? Or is it only a mid-life crisis rearing its head, threatening to destroy your life?

And speaking of heads, you'd better check yourself and make sure the big head is the one doing the thinking...

WOW - we all seem very negative here. Ponty, for what it is worth I have some sympathy for your situation but that doesn't mean that I think you should automatically rush to break apart.

I've been with Alison 23 years now. I'm sure there have been a few times when we came close to breaking apart, but so far it hasn't happened and at this point I doubt that it ever will. The reason it never happened was that whenever we thought it through properly we realised that, imperfect as our relationship sometimes was, it was not dead or lifeless, so there was actually no guarantee that any other situation would work out any better. Sometimes the old adage of "better the devil you know," is worth heeding.

The problem with making decisions about relationships when you are "in love" is that you will automatically tend to see all the bad bits of your current relationship and all the good bits of the potential new one. That is not a fair and objective comparison.

So to make this decision you will have to be rather more honest and analytical than you so far seem to have been. You could start by asking yourself several important questions.

1. Was the original relationship already "walking dead" If so that places a different complexion on the issue of the affair. If you were previously just staying together out of habit, then that means that the affair was not what broke you apart but rather the product of your already dysfunctional marriage.

2. make yourself an honest list of the advantages and disadvantages of both relationships. What is good about them? what is bad?

3. If the current affair did not exist, would breaking apart from your wife represent a secret relief or a source of terrible pain?

4. If you broke apart, would this destroy your wife, or would she ultimately find new strength though it? If you feel you must part can you find a way to do it which is survivable for both of you?

When you have answered these questions honesty you will probably know better what you really want to do, and I, for one, would like to wish you good luck in whatever you decide.

Relationships in life are not always permanent. The important thing is never to destroy those we have loved, by the timing and the way that we leave. To leave someone at the risk of destroying them is selfish and is using them. If a parting of the ways is to happen it should really be just a natural progression for you both, and never simply one party deserting the other!

I feel for your pain but, creating a huge amount more all around you is not the way to go. As stated above you need to  get yourself in an honest place first. It will hurt less for everyone than the carnage  ypu are going to cause as things stand now.

Quote from: Jennifer on December 11, 2010, 07:36:34 AM
I disagree. If the marriage was dead, the marriage agreement should be dissolved first, then play around after. A marriage contract is the biggest most important agreement a person can make. BREAK THE DEAL, FACE THE WHEEL.
How can he answer questions honestly when he has proven he is completely dishonest?

Jennifer

Trouble is it could also be argued that those who go for transition after having taken marriage vows are also "Breaking the deal", particularly if they don't divorce before seeking any treatment. After all few if any spouses sign up expecting their loved one to suddenly turn out to be a different gender.

So should they also be condemned as unworthy of receiving treatment because they "broke their vows"? I think not. I think we should let he or she who has never made a mistake cast the first stone. If I used your logic I would ask how can they honestly say they are female when they have proven themselves "completely dishonest" by taking marriage vows as men?

In short an eye for an eye simply makes the world blind. (Or at best it means that the only people who can see are the ones who are so skilled at deceiving others so they never get caught!)

My point is that I am not willing to judge another person for making a mistake, even one that I have never made. There but for the grace of God etc, because compassion is always a more constructive answer than vengeance and judgement.

Oh and by the way I'm not saying I approve - merely that I try to understand.

I feel I was posing some of the same sort of questions as Jen, albeit in a far more brief, suggestive form.

I've seen few marriages last forever, but do feel that people whose marriages have stood the test for a while ask themselves some hard questions and engage their spouses in healthy dialogue before dropping bombs and committing to courses of action that may not have the substance to make it far beyond the initial appeal.

Infatuation fades. And the consequences of displaying carelessness with the lives of loved ones can be enduring. The original post didn't seem to suggest that a great deal of consideration for the family had been brought into play, but focused on the new affair.

Just food for thought.

Quote from: Jennifer on December 11, 2010, 09:31:40 AM
rejennyrated, I mean no disrespect, my point is that marriage is an agreement to remain faithful to each other. He dishonestly and willfully took advantage of his partner. He broke the agreement. Your argument about admitting to being TG after marriage is not valid. Nor is it relevant in this case. As I said before, marriage is the ultimate agreement we can enter into and once that deal has been willfully broken, how can one be trusted? Sure, marriages go through rough stretches and require give and take and much work, but if the basic ground rules are not followed, what's the point? And as Sydney pointed out, what about consideration for the other family members? If you want to have sex with others, ask your partner if it's O.K. If not, get divorced and play away.

Jennifer

Likewise I mean no disrespect, but I find it impossible to differentiate infidelity from any other situation in which someone has broken the terms and conditions of a vow. Thus, in my book, marrying when one is TG is exactly the same! It is a deception pure and simple...  and it can devastate the life of the innocent victim. It may not have been intentional, but the effect is precisely the same and therefore, I am quite seriously of the opinion that if we hold that one is unforgivable then so by inescapable logic is the other!

By the same token I am sure that very few people set out to be unfaithful, but life, as they say, is what happens whilst you are busy making other plans. Someone can quote moral theory at me all day. It doesn't change the fact that reality seldom so neat and convenient. If I have never been unfaithful I am honest enough with myself to know that this may only be because I have never been in the situation where I have been tempted, and that being the case I am not about to condemn someone else for failing a test which I may simply never have faced.

I am sorry but I really do regard marriage as any other solemn promise.  To set it up on some sort of unique pedestal is frankly to have a severely selective morality in regard to the value of your solemn word. To my eyes it is hugely simplistic. The truth is no solemn promise should ever be broken, by anyone, for any reason, but in the real world they are broken all too frequently.

Thus it becomes very easy to condemn someone else for doing something that we may be lucky enough to have escaped doing in exact detail whilst finding all the excuses under the sun to justify something morally equivalent, which we have done and which others may find equally offensive and unforgiveable. We justify this in our own minds by telling ourselves that marriage is a magical special case whereas what we did was just an unfortunate slip. Well sorry but it isn't! So I too am a miserable sinner, in a different context, and I too must seek forgiveness.

For this reason I prefer to always adhere to the scripture which cautions us to judge not lest we be judged. So I think we may have to agree to respectfully disagree on this. My advice to Ponty remains unchanged. He needs to do some serious questioning.

Quote from: Valeriedances on December 11, 2010, 10:33:13 AM
Follow your heart, wherever that takes you. It isn't that hard or complicated even.

No one should stay in a relationship where the love has died, for the sake of some concept of contract agreement, ownership, or societal rules/pressure. We dont OWN each other.

Has anyone seen Brokeback Mountain? I imagine the life portrayed in that movie mirrors lives many of us have had. I know it does mine.

Denying love for the sake of society has a terrible price. So my advise is follow your heart.

I wish you and your spouse the best.

I absolutely agree with listening to one's heart, and not doing things to simply please society; but as human beings, we're also very adept at lying to ourselves. I'd want to be absolutely sure that I wasn't just following some fleeting emotion that would lead me to nothing but heartache before I made such an important decision; one that would affect not only my life, but the lives of everyone around me.

I was not going to reply to this post. Because I believe in the tremendous commitment of matrimony . I could not,( in all good conscience) offer advice, knowing there is another person on the other side of this story . Who will be seriously injured or adversely effected.  On the other hand, I  have to acknowledge, " we are here now, what's done is done". To the original poster: I think you know how to handle this, it is like any other affair that unfortunately happens all the time. Just with a little twist.

   The reason  I am posting here, is, I am very proud to be counted amongst this very honorable group of people here. That in a society that pays so little or no regard to the marriage vows. Have spoken up for what they believe in. You are truly a wonderful group of people !!!

  Hugs and Love, Roxy 

   

I do not think marrying someone when they do not know you are trans is a violation of the marriage vows.
There is nothing in mariage that makes you promise to be a certain gender.
If anything the vows people say include the words "in sickness and health".
(I told Sevan long before we got married but if I hadn't I wouldn't consider it a betrayal.)

I also believe in the absolute committment of marriage.

And that, sometimes, marriages don't work.

But while I know this sounds very judgemental and I do apologise to ponty and any others for this. I don't believe that anyone deserves to be betrayed behind their back.

I've been following this thread and am reluctant to say this. It makes me out to be so perfect.

But ponty has asked for advice. Betrayal hurts people. It just isn't right and I'm sorry, I don't know your wife but she doesn't deserve that.

I would just like to clarify for those in any doubt that I do not approve of Ponty's actions.

My point is merely that our word should be our word whatever the circumstances and I therefore do not believe that any of us have the right to sit in any absolute judgement on the shortcomings of another.

Betrayal is betrayal, and wrong irrespective of the circumstances. I too believe that when you give your word you should keep it, but I recognise that I too have failed, even if not in this exact circumstance and therefore I prefer to deal with what IS rather than what ideally should be.