If you're too slow compared to other boys to make the track team - that's life. It happens to plenty of smaller cisboys too. What makes your physical disadvantages worthy of special treatment, and theirs not? Their reasons may be different, but they can't help their physical shortcomings any more than you can. Your feelings are no more (or less) important than theirs. Short of letting everyone on the track team (at which point it becomes a social club, handing out ribbons with "Participant!" on them), someone is always going to be disappointed.

QFT.  And if you make it in that way you will never be part of the track 'team'.  You have to make the 'team' just like everyone else.

Wow, this is a such major thread derailing. This is a support board. Support doesn't mean cheerleading or telling people what they want to hear all the time. However, it doesn't mean taking pot shots at someone either. It also means reading the entire thread and looking at the dates before commenting and paying attention to what is being asked.

In mid-November, Aiden had an encounter with a hall monitor/security person while he was with his girlfriend. He also started running on the track team, where the coach treats him like one of the boys, but the question whether he'd be allowed to compete as a male was raised as an issue from the coach - not because he wasn't on the team or the coach didn't want to include him, but strictly as a "not clear bio female can run with bio males."

At the time, people commented on whether he would have the right to compete and also about the hall monitor thingee. Thread quiets down.

This week, someone new here tries to give more legal advice about the legal rights question - and does so in a way that doesn't seem to understand the actual facts here. (The question is not whether they have to let Aiden on the team - he already IS on the track team). But ok. trying to help out.

Someone else brand new uses this thread to make a first post on Susan's just to say, "Suck it up man, don't be such a crying whiny baby." This prompts a chorus of people telling Aiden to suck it up and not cry and not be a snitch and then continues to point out that he shouldn't get any special treatment to be on the team because he's slow or that he shouldn't even try to compete because he's so slow. WTF?

Aiden is already on the track team and he will improve as he trains. Not every team requires try-outs and cuts, particularly track, where you can train by running together and aren't limited by the sport rules (e.g., 5 players on basketball court for a team at one time in a game). Being on a team in high school is a great experience for building a fitness base, self-esteem, learning discipline, and making friends. He is on the team. The coach has let him on the team. No one is saying he should get special treatment for being slow or having a cis-female body. He wants to be treated the same as any other slow, small boy would be, and the fact that he's willing to endure being the slow guy with his teammates is a sign of strength, not something to kick down. I'm sure there are other non-jock boys who don't go for high school sports because they think people will make fun of them for being slow or look down on them, and those boys will never get better and miss out on what could be a good opportunity in building skills for life. In 10 years, no one is going to care if Aiden was the slowest on the track, but he'll have built experiences and memories that serve him well.

As for the hall monitor thing, people here are using a double standard because of the crying. In another thread, a poster who is an adult, posted about whether to report a zealous police officer who used his access to try and find out our poster's original name/status before transitioning. The advice was split between reporting an abusive bully (to keep it from happening to other people) and keeping quiet (to stay stealth). No one said, "Suck it up, abusive jerks bully people all the time. A real man doesn't complain." Aiden was facing a bully in authority, and when he tried to correct the guy, the bully didn't care. Aiden went to report him to an adult at the high school. He was not snitching on a buddy, he was not in a group of guys - he was alone with his gf, facing an authority figure in a high school.

Kids are bullied everyday in our high schools and authorities turn a blind idea to transphobia and homophobia or sometimes they themselves perpetuate it. Aiden not only has the right to report discrmination, he is doing others a favor when he does so. People naively ask when a bunch of teenagers commit suicide, "Why didn't they just tell adults about the bullying?' I think a bunch of people here know that this is a naive attitude, but what I never expected was to read a bunch of comments on a trans support forum telling a teenager who has been bullied due to transphobia that he should suck it up, man up, and not be a whiny baby.

Was it very mature of Aiden to run crying to a guidance counselor as opposed to staying calm? No. Was it very manly as we understsand that? No. So what? Yeah, at some point, he'll need to learn to keep his emotions in check when faced with bullies, but I think this is one area where everyone knows how much your actual hormone levels affect your ability to cry or not cry. The FTMs here on T know that it gets much harder to cry and the MTFs on HRT know that they start crying at times or in places they'd never expect. It's hard to fight the chemicals in your body, and it's harder when you're faced with the experiences that high school students are faced with everyday, where it's not just ONE bully or ONE idiot.

Well said Sean

I was considering posting something myself today ... and had been pondering what I was going to say.

As a parent of a kid who was bullied I would have been proud if my son had taken such coarse of action.  It takes a lot to stand up to someone and then more to continue to fight for your right to be treated equally.

As for crying - get real .... how many threads to do we see about gender roles and how even when we fully transition we don't want to be sucked down into gender roles ... we want to just be ourselves.  Boys cry & girls cry -- puberty is tough!  Why do we insist on making boys/men conform to the standard of being tough and not crying and then complain that we can't find a caring and compasionate guy.

Your points are well made Sean, and I agree with them.

However, I do believe people had the best of intentions in the advice they gave Aiden.

Children are socialized into the expectations of their gender roles from the minute they interact as part of society.  A child has had most of those years to learn the social expectations and integrate them into their self-expression (either accepting or rejecting them).  A transgender child has not had the benefit of being socialized, and expereincing the social reaction (either positive or negative) to their acceptance or rejection of the social standards expected of their target gender.

Aiden's reaction, we all agree, was typical of his female socialization.  I don't think anyone was trying to demean Aiden for the choices he made, myself included, only to educate him on the social expectations of males his age and the social reaction for not meeting those social expectations.  Aiden is free to choose to accept or reject those social expectations.  I would point to those standards were Aiden, or anyone in his situation, to complain that no one accepted him as his target gender.

EDIT:

This of course all in the context that people living in their birth assigned gender get somewhat of a free pass in to the boys or girls club and have some wider degree of lattitude in not meeting the social expectations of their gender.

Sean, just wanted to second your post.

I know I am new to all of you but I've lurked for a long time, and decided to make an account to reply to this thread just because I felt irked about the crying comment.  What I meant was that it's hard enough for non-trans people to understand where you're coming from, but it makes it twice as hard for them if your voice, appearance, and behaviour don't seem masculine to them.  Does that make it okay for someone to diss you?  No, but it makes it understandable if they have no concept of what transgender really means.

In any case, someone said I sounded condescending, and that is true so I apologize.  I also didn't expect my comment to derail the thread like it did.

Thanks for that, Sean.

Look, maybe telling a counselor what happened isn't the "macho" thing to do, but it is the smart thing to do when you're a teen when you can't resolve the situation yourself. And seriously, if someone publicly mocked me and said I'm not a guy unless I have a dick, I'd be pretty upset too. Especially when you're first affirming your identity, it hits a nerve. Female hormones don't give you the choice of whether or not to cry, sometimes it just happens.

Regan, do you think Aiden isn't aware of that male standard? I'm certain when I was six I knew the rule that boys don't cry. I repeat, I'm fairly sure he didn't choose to cry after being insulted. It's not indicative of his female socialisation, it's indicative of female hormones. Did he ask for suggestions on how to behave more male? No, his team seems to be accepting of him as he is. Was that why the hall monitor was being so stubborn? No, the hall monitor wouldn't have given a rat's ass if Aiden's response was manly and involved punching the guy in the gut, his only qualification for "male" is a dick.

This thread only came to my attention today, but the recent responses have actually succeeded in making me actively furious. Leave the guy alone. I see absolutely nothing wrong with how he looks or acted.

Just wanted to second Sean, Rob, and Nikolai. I'm glad somebody responded to all of that.
I sometimes have a hard time responding to things that I disagree with without coming off as aggressive. So, I'm glad we have guys on here who can speak more eloquently than I can 

>Mod hat on<

I'm just trying to read this thread without having to stop and modify posts every thirty seconds. Folks, please remember the rules about language and personal information. PM me if you aren't sure what I'm talking about.

Sean, thank you for stepping in.

For some of you other folks: you might want to dial it down a bit. There can be quite a gray area between helpful "guy" advice and unhelpful "oh, just suck it up" advice. There is, in fact, such a thing as helpful "suck it up" advice, but tone is very important. It is possible to be critical, constructive, reasonably kind, and openly supportive all at once. So watch how you say things, please.

>Mod hat off<

i'm on the team because ANYONE can join the track team for distance running. practicing and running after school has helped me get a little faster. when i said i wasnt an advantage to the team, i ment that i didnt see how a bio female running with bio guys would be considered cheating. (like a bio male, physically faster and stronger playing on a girls team would be an advantage ya kno?)
i pass. maybe not as my real age...but ya.
thanks Sean for your input

Quote from: aidengabriel on December 16, 2010, 07:22:28 PM
i'm on the team because ANYONE can join the track team for distance running. practicing and running after school has helped me get a little faster. when i said i wasnt an advantage to the team, i ment that i didnt see how a bio female running with bio guys would be considered cheating. (like a bio male, physically faster and stronger playing on a girls team would be an advantage ya kno?)

Ah. That makes sense with more context. That changes things dramatically. I can see where you (and others) are coming from.

Back when I was in school we had limited spots for all sports, including distance running. If you weren't in the top 5 on try out day, no meets and no training for you whatsoever. Totally different context.

If everyone else is welcome to the meets (no try out, no cuts, etc) - then that is totally lame ass stuff they're pulling, and I agree with the idea that the "powers that be" are being a bunch of... well... something I won't say but it's not very nice. They're excluding you, personally, based entirely on trans status and not performance related. I'd be fighting it. With what? No idea - but I'd be kicking up a stink.

I'd start by asking them the question "What would happen if I just showed up and ran anyway?".

By the way - don't take the comments regarding physical disadvantages as people saying "don't try". I think in most cases it's more intended as "You'll have to prepare to try twice as hard, and may not get intended results - but hey - give it your best shot anyway, and good luck".

Regarding administration and bullying - My tone was a bit harsh in places, but I still believe the "administration" in most schools are nothing but a bunch of politically correct do-nothing mouthpieces. They make the bully kids give some hollow apology and a meaningless assurance that it'll never happen again, and the next day it just starts back up (only when less people are looking).

The only ways out I've seen work (without just knocking out one of their teeth - which can be risky and against school policy) are to cut the bullies down with smart(er) assed comments, give them a bully time right back, or flip them off and don't care. Then just holding out to senior years where being your own person suddenly becomes cool.

I think there's a double standard in the threads because you can give the jerk kid crap right back without landing in the slammer. Telling "Officer Nosey" you think he touches himself at night might not go down so well.

yeah. i'd really appreciate it if yall would stop trying to "help" me and give me your advice. the ordeal is done. at meets i warm up with the guys, and before the distance race starts guys and gals usually team up with their running buddy and i pass alright. when/if my name needs to be on something like my # or track shirt, its usually A. Mora or just Mora (last name).
i dont need to be told how "unmanly" i handled the hall monitor situation.
i dont need to be told what macho male stereotype i dont fit into
i AM a young male, and guess what, i cried when i was upset. maybe after hormones i'll be more likely to control my emotions. I'm as male as any one of you with T, although i may not always look or "act" the part. i'll correct whoever gets my gender wrong and whoever trys to call me by my birth name.

Quote from: aidengabriel on December 16, 2010, 10:51:20 PM
maybe after hormones i'll be more likely to control my emotions.

If you're anything like me (and some others I know at Susan's and IRL), you will have a much easier time not crying once you're on T. In fact, now that I'm in therapy with an understanding head doc, I am more open to crying as a way to relieve stress--except it's so much harder to cry now! I really had to learn all over again how to do it, and still I often can't do it when I want to.

arch:
i hope T affects me like that! but getting T wont happen for a LONG time :O
right now i'm more focused on getting my parents to understand what being FTM means, and getting my name legally changed

Once your parents are on board, you might get what you need a little sooner than you expected. But if not, do the best you can with what you've got. And the name change can be a HUGE boost to your morale.