For those who don't know, I've been off work since the beginning of the month.  And I've been living 100% full time.  No one can give me a date when I'll be going back.  Such is the uncertainty of construction.

During this time off I've colored my hair, much darker than what people are used to seeing.  I've also had gel nails done.  But more than anything, the biggest change has been my frame of mind.  Living my life in a way that is natural to me has had a big impact on me.  Whatever doubt I've had about living full time as a female is gone.  I know this is where I belong.

Yesterday my boss called.  He has a some work I can do at home but of course I'll have to meet him to pick up the prints.  I'm guessing it will take a week, tops, to finish the work.  Then I'll probably have to wait until work in the field becomes available.  Because we've been playing phone tag, I haven't been able to discuss everything with him but it looks like I'll start the work this Tuesday.

When I got the first phone call I immediately thought, "I'm not ready to give up my life again."  But I know I have to work for two more years before retiring.

We have all, at some time, dealt with the struggle of needing to be who we are vs. needing to be someone else.  In this society, if you're trans, it's inevitable.  But when you move past a point, almost a point of no return, the strength it takes to turn around is enormous.  I feel that's where I am right now.

When I return to the field the nails will have to go.  The hair color people will have to get used to.  But living as male, even just for the 10-12 hours that make up a workday, could be very stressful.  Depression cannot be ruled out either. 

Besides peace of mind, I've noticed a lot of other positives from being full time.  I eat better.  I sleep better.  My life is more organized.  And I have noticed I'm being more creative with my woodworking projects, not to mention the fact I'm finishing them (I was notorious for starting things and not finishing them).  Even when I was full time less work most of that didn't exist.

So now I'm looking at the options.  I could retire in April (my 56th birthday) but I'd get a smaller pension and have to pay part of my medical coverage forever.  If I wait until I'm 58 the pension will be about 10-12% more and I'll be fully covered medically.  If I retire now I'll have two more years of peace and happiness.  If I wait, I have no idea what impact that will have on my physical and mental health, but I suspect it won't be good.

I've been told, "It's only two more years.  You've made it this far.  What's another two years?"  The difference is, I was in complete denial then.  I had no idea how beautiful life can be.  Now that I know, I can't erase that from my mind and go back into denial, even partial denial.  This will be at the forefront of my thinking all the time.  Everything is magnified.  I feel like a woman now and I'm uncomfortable doing anything as a male.  I hate it!  Denial kept those feelings locked tightly away but those walls have been knocked down and now I'm totally exposed.  Those two years could be devastating to my mental well being, or things could just be stressful at times.

Better financial security or eliminate stress.  I've never been so torn in my life.  If I had 20 or 30 more good years ahead of me, the decision would be easier.  But I don't.  Longevity does not run in my family.  Even now I feel like I'm hanging on to what little youth I have left with a death grip. 

No doubt, I'm between a rock and a hard place. 

Julie

That is tough Julie.  I understand you work in electrical contracting and I think you said the people are less than tolerant about TS (although their ambivalence towards you feminine appearance says otherwise).  Would it be possible to go fulltime as Julie and still work until you're 58?  After all, you did say you are much better at finishing things that way.

Melissa

It is obvious from all your posts that you are being torn apart by this living two lives issue.  A lot can happen in two years, why wait, why wait, why wait.  Transition already, change your name, and get on with it, changing your name and everything else associated with starting transition will take the best part of a year and that will only leave one year left to suffer.  Your should also be looking for other work as well.  I don't know your financial situation Julie but unless your pension is huge, the medical costs associated with being TS will chew up a good portion of a pension, so you are going to need some type of work to supplement your pension.

I know I'm being a little blunt, and I'll apologize in advance for my words, but you need to start feeling good about your self, good about who and what you are, good about your life, etc.  Your latest posts are so negative Julie especially the one on Phobias, and I can understand why, but they are also so self destructive.  Get out and start making things right, seek other employment and quit your job if that's what it takes.

You have to be you and that's the most important thing, it matters not what other people think, employers, family, friends.  Just from what I've read Julie I think that in your case the longer you wait the worse it is going to get.

Just my thoughts hon.

Steph

Hello Julie,

                I understand your feelings and how conflicted you are. Do not underestimate the value of paid health insurance. Even a small premium can grow to unmanageble amounts in a few years. I do not feel you only have two choices. You are a woman.  Hair styles, makeup, clothes and fingernails do not make you a woman. I think a third option is to slowly start being yourself on the job. I do not mean visual things like wearing lipstick. I mean start acting like you would if you came completely out. If you have artificial male traits start dropping them. A perceived male who chugs beer, smokes cigars and swears like a sailor (not that you do any of these, just an example) cannot expect a sudden change in dress and presentation to result in everyone accepting her as female. I know it is possible to drop the male baggage without changing clothes. The problem of being recognized as male rather than female will still be there and that hurts I know. I also know the attitude of "Julie is going to work today" can relieve a lot of the stress for some. I do not mean go one day and swish around and use your female voice. I mean start softening your voice, start walking in a more relaxed manner as yourself. do and say the things you would say and do if you were completely transitioned. If your secretary has a cute outfit on say "Thats a cute outfit Mary" if that is what you feel. When the first person notices the changes (it will take longer than you think) and mentions something, just say something like "Don't worry I'm not gay, I have always projected a kind of macho attitude and I'm just being myself more".  When the day comes to transition, people will have the attitude of "That makes sense" rather than "What the heck is with "Joe"?"  This approach is not for everyone and needs to be tailored for each persons situation but I know from experience it can add some relief.


beth

Julie, what does it mean to go to work as yourself?  Perhaps you can think of an imaginary compromise.  I know for myself, there are no gender aspects of going to work "at" my job.  It used to be very important for me to wear cute clothes and fix my hair nice.  I had to have the support of people using correct pronouns.  Those were very important to me at the time.  But they are not part of my daily work now. I have to wear work clothes and steel toed shoes, not all that unsimilar to what you would have to wear.

Perhaps you can skip the dress cute for work part right now.  You "are" Julie.  Can you let them call you "Joe" and just pretend that you know better? 

I was most terrified to start looking different when I transitioned.  I did not want any hint to show.  I couldn't bear that anyone might know.  But you are far beyond that.  Just keep on going! 

Hey remember that "Dead Like Me" tv series?  The lead character was named George.  She was a hotty.

Don't hold off Julie.  Just do what you need to do to collect your pension.

Cindi

Julie!

Go for it girl!  It would break my heart to see you depressed!  Please I know what this means to you.  You must pursue your life now.

I've learned a couple of things from life.  One of them is "Do it NOW!".  My in laws scrimped and saved for retirement alway putting off their happiness.  In the end they had virtually no life after retirement.  My father in law died of emphysema less than a year after he retired and my mother in law had a stroke three months after he retired.  The lost every opportunity to be happy.

Do it NOW!  Claim your happiness!  You have a right to be happy now.  You cannot be sure of tomorrow.

Dammit, I'm crying now and I didn't want to.  Please girlfriend, be happy.

-Sandy   

Steph, if I've been coming across as negative it's not how I'm feeling.  Christmas is tough with not seeing my kids, so I guess that gets me down.  The 'Phobias' post was something passed on to me and was intended to remind us all of what society seems to feel is perfectly okay.  I use things like that to keep the fire burning and not become complacent with a suppressive society.

I have the funds to pay for medical costs for physical transitioning.  I don't need my pension for that.  The biggie for me is health insurance.  It's no secret as we get older we need it more.  That's what's driving me to keep working. 

Beth, I work in a very macho industry and the guys there notice every little nuance of femininity.  In fact I think its safe to say most guys act more macho at work than they do outside of work because of peer pressure.  So any idea of slowly incorporating the real me at work has to be put aside.  I think I've gone about as far as I can with it.  There's a pretty dramatic change in my world once I walk onto a jobsite.  I just don't feel I belong there anymore.  Now I know how the few women in the trade feel.

Cindi, I'm working on mind games I can play with myself.  I just don't know how long I can be successful with it.  Last Friday, after those women saw me as one of them, I actually contemplated coming out to my boss.  The only thing that kept me from doing it was they don't need office help right now and I knew I'd have to work in the field with my boss knowning and maybe sharing that with someone else.  That would run through the job like wildfire and my life at work would turn a vicious 180.  But my frame of mind is such that something has to be done.  Maybe it's time to go back to my therapist again.

Sandy, you know me and I think you know how bull headed I can be when I want.  The bull headed part of me is saying, "Screw the bastards!  Don't let them take a comfortable retirement away from you!"  The woman in me is saying, "I just want to live my life and be happy." 

The past 1-1/2 months have been so wonderful and this past week has taken me to a place I never thought I'd be.  Today I was out shopping, for something like three hours.  I was at two clothing stores, one cosmetic store and the grocery store.  I interacted with many people and not once got "that" look.  I was just a woman shopping.  The deeper I go into the female world the harder it's going to be to come out, even if it's just for half a day, five days a week.

I've been through things like this before.  And I open up and pour out how I'm feeling.  Friends respond and provide helpful advice and kind words.  I never waste any of that.  I use it all and it helps me through the mini crisis.

When I first posted my thoughts, I honestly felt there was nothing anyone could say that would help me out of this.  I was wrong.  Everything you ladies have written here has touched my heart and my soul.  And it's made me feel a whole lot better.  I'm still not sure what I'll do but I know I'm going to seriously look at the realities of retiring now or coming out to my boss.  Living as a guy, even part time, is the last thing I want to do.

Thank you all for helping.  Your words have touched me more than you'll ever know.

Julie

Hi Julie

I wish there was an "easy button" for this, if only such things existed. It's easy to say "but you'll still be you" if you go back to the life you've left behind, but we both know you won't feel that way. The bottom line is you'll have to decide if you're willing to suffer through two more years, it's your game and only you can play the hand.I try to avoid telling anyone what I think they should do, instead I share my experiences and what works for me now, so let me share...

I used to be a steelworker, notice I said "used to be". I'm now retired, I left 9 years earlier than I planned, and I left being broke from putting my daughter through vet school. Why did I retire under such circumstances? Long story short...I decided to go full time, so I came out at work, management didn't like it, so they forced me out, just like that, and they made it look so easy! My union who I knew would protect me? They sat on their hands and gave me up like I was nothing, they don't even return my phone calls. When I came out I was surprised at how many workers came up to me to offer their support, but as soon as this started they headed for the exits. I was a team leader and ran a crew, I was always there for everyone no matter what, now only one guy calls and cares, the rest gone like I was never there.

The point is this...if you do decide to come out there, be prepared to be walked on plenty, and don't believe anything good they tell you. I could be wrong, your place could be different and such, just keep watching your back and never let your guard down. Back to the bottom line, you have to decide if the risk is worth it, if this pain would be better or worse than the pain of going back to your old life. Door number one, or door number two?

So now I'm retired and planning to move to Iowa, I'm full time, and I'm planning on SRS. This begs the question...would I do the same thing over again if given a do-over? I can answer that without hesitation, in a heartbeat! Sure I lost, but I feel like a winner instead. I stood up for myself as myself, and now I get to complete my journey of completing myself, that's worth a lot more to me than their paychecks and the loss of supposed friends.

I will tell you this, something I'm a firm believer of...you gotta do what you gotta do, and only you know what's best for you. I think I know you well enough to know that you're a strong person who can handle whichever direction you choose, so do what you gotta do Julie, you'll be able to handle it.

Karen

Hi Julie,

We come from the same world. I know where you are and certainly you are not coming out at work. For those of you who don't understand, it's not just the company she works for. It's about the workforce she belongs to, all the members in the area she lives, would know. That means everyone at every company would know. This is a very macho, physical job. There is a lot of joking about one's manhood. It would be like a marine coming out and trying to continue being a marine in womens clothes.

Julie, there is only right now. Tomorrow never gets here and we can't change what happened yesterday. I will not sacrifice even one day of happiness for a promise of a future day of happiness. That makes no sense to me. What we are talking about here, is stuff. If you wait, you get more money, and hence can have more stuff. The insurance will cost you more, meaning you get less stuff. So? is it worth it to give up some stuff to be happy right now?

I know I could never go back to my male identity. I would rather push around a  shopping cart in a tattered skirt, than live in a nice house in my former male role. I don't want to just exist anymore. If I have to do that, I might as well be dead, because that is not living to me.

This is where I add the normal disclaimers. This is just my opinion and I can't possible know what is right for you. Your results may vary, not available in all areas, while supplies last.(I stole this from someone, but I don't remember who)

Love always,
Elizabeth

Dear Julie,
I am new this year to my acceptance as being transgendered. I'm 54 and have known and struggled all my life supressing the real me. Right now, like you, I am stuck between that rock and a hard place. I am at a much earlier stage than you. My rock and hard place is between becoming who I am vs. losing my wonderful wife and beautiful children. To me at this point it is a win, lose situation.

My only suggestion is for you to take your own advise that you stated in your last post. Go talk this out with your therapist. That's what I am doing this week. In my experience they have the wonderful ability to help us peal away the emotional cloudiness and get clear on the issue. Then one can make a clear and confident decision.

I hope this helps you in some little way as you have helped me in so many ways.

Sincerely,

Kylie

Julie i understand all to well your delimma!
I live this day in and day out.  With no physical outward transition i literally am two people it seems and each day brings a new challenge and a new conflict!
Hugs
Ricki

Quote from: Elizabeth on December 29, 2006, 09:55:00 PMWe come from the same world. I know where you are and certainly you are not coming out at work. For those of you who don't understand, it's not just the company she works for. It's about the workforce she belongs to, all the members in the area she lives, would know. That means everyone at every company would know. This is a very macho, physical job. There is a lot of joking about one's manhood. It would be like a marine coming out and trying to continue being a marine in womens clothes.

Elizabeth, until I read your post I didn't realize that most people can't understand this, no matter how well you describe it or how often you say it.  You have to live it.  I've been doing this a long time.  Most of the facade I put on at work is so automatic I don't even realize I'm doing it.  Yet, if I completely dropped the facade I know life on the jobsite would have been very different.

Most, if not all, of the male personality I developed I learned from my dad.  He was that type of person you wanted to please, probably because praise rarely came from him, but when it did you felt like a million bucks.  He taught me to be tough minded and that helped immensely in construction.  In fact, what I learned from him helped me to excel in my job, to a point only a small fraction of the people in the field have achieved.

I was blessed in many ways and much of what I was blessed with was utilized in my male life.  A lot of it cannot be transferred over to, or integrated into, my female life.  Even if I moved to another part of the country and started over in the field as a woman, I'd never get even half as far as a woman as I have as a man.  Yes, construction is still in the stone ages when it comes to women's rights.  On the surface it looks like all is well, but in reality it's a man's world and women aren't welcome.

Just like we talk about how society doesn't understand us, those who don't work in a male dominated field, don't understand life there.  There is no human resources or diversity people to talk to.  I haven't even seen an anti-discrimination policy, other than the one created by the government.  But I'm sure if asked someone could produce it.  It's just not practiced, at least not when it comes to women.

So once I step into the field I have to put on the mask to survive.  If I didn't it would only be a matter of time before my life at work would become a living hell.  Sure, I could stand up and fight the discrimination.  I could see to it that anti-discrimination policies are strictly enforced, at least in terms of the union hall and contracting companies go.  But the men in the field aren't going to change over night.  And I'm not ready to become a poster girl for trans rights.  I value my life too much.

When I needed to get approval for therapy so it would be covered by my insurance, I had talk to the person in charge of that.  I was fearful it might get out that I was trans but I figured if it did I'd sue them and I could retire.  Still it was tough letting the words get past my lips.  I asked if there was anyone else who came to them with a similar issue.  He said only one person had but that was for being gay.  I was the only trans person he knew of.

While in therapy I mentioned I could never come out on the job.  My therapist wholeheartedly agreed.  That sealed it for me.  I knew if I ever tried to come out I'd be putting my life on the line.  So my choices are simple.  Retire now or retire later.  There will be no working in this field as a trans person.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on January 01, 2007, 09:08:58 AM
Just like we talk about how society doesn't understand us, those who don't work in a male dominated field, don't understand life there.  There is no human resources or diversity people to talk to.  I haven't even seen an anti-discrimination policy, other than the one created by the government.  But I'm sure if asked someone could produce it.  It's just not practiced, at least not when it comes to women.

Then why are you continuing to work in that field?  I'm sorry, but to me this sounds a lot like "male privilege".  Now, that being said, I will say that I currently hold a nice paying job that I got as a male (while still in transition) and I don't know if I could have gotten something that paid as well so easily if I had been job searching as a woman and so it scares me that if I lost my job, I would take a lower paying one (although I have no reasons to substantiate this) and it would be harder to cover my transitional costs.  However, the thing is, going 100% fulltime became a necessity for me and if push came to shove, I would never detransition just to get a higher paying job again.

But, as GypsyKaren said:

Quote from: GypsyKaren on December 29, 2006, 08:31:37 PM
I will tell you this, something I'm a firm believer of...you gotta do what you gotta do, and only you know what's best for you. I think I know you well enough to know that you're a strong person who can handle whichever direction you choose, so do what you gotta do Julie, you'll be able to handle it.

Melissa

I understand Julie's situation.  My other half is employed in a similar position.  He is a union member and can not even leave the geographical location where he works.  The consequences of leaving are staggering.  His back is in terrible shape but he has 4 more years to go until he can retire.  He has to go that 4 more years.  If he can, he can retire at 52 with a pension equal to or more than he currently makes.  If he leaves now, he'll not be able to collect his retirement wages until 59 1/2.  And then he'll collect only half.  It is a similar situation with his health care benefit.  Believe me, you can't walk away from this sort of thing on principle.  We do need financial income in our old age.  It's easier to have it than to not have it.

In the bay area, there are those who have transitioned where hubby has been working. They manage, but just barely.  This is in a section of the country where transition is supposedly supported.  Quite honestly, I can't see how they continue with all the discrimination they face every single day.

I'm sure that Julie's situation is somewhat different, but the rules are similar.  The financial consequences of abandoning the pension in two years for a bit of peace right now are significant. It's easy to see the tremendous conflict this can cause.

I feel for ya Julie.  I really do.  You need that pension.  I know that you don't look any different though in femme or in masculine incarnations.  If I could still be myself, as you are, and just have to put up with the name and pronouns for a couple more years, I'd find a way to do it.

Cindi

I'll tell you something else Julie, something I've truly learned from my situation. Money means nothing, it's just something you stuff into your purse, it's just another set of numbers on a piece of paper. I have happiness and joy instead, I'll take that over their paychecks any day.

Karen

GpsyK...
I agree but.. the fact that it is an exchange in this hysterically crazy material world?  Well for things like gas, power, food, a car (for those of you that have vehicles or need them where you are..) food for my dog, clothing, etc...
I am pointing out the obvious, I know what you meant GypsyK......
Less none of our coffins would be stuffed with green franklin lining...
Penny for your thought...$$-joke-had to!
ricki

Quote from: Melissa on January 01, 2007, 12:30:47 PM
Then why are you continuing to work in that field?  I'm sorry, but to me this sounds a lot like "male privilege".
Melissa

Melissa, we've been through this before.  Look back on my reply the last time you asked this question.  With the exception of me being totally full time (until I have to go back to work), nothing else has changed. 

You keep harping on this male privilege thing.  I grew up in a different place and time than you.  I've spent over half a century living as male and that can't be erased, nor am I going to just walk away from everything because I fear someone crying "male privilege!".  The price I paid to get where I am today gives me the right to choose how I'm going to utilize all things at my disposal, "male privilege" included.  I will take everything I can into my female life to make it easier.  I worked for it.  I earned it.  It's mine.

Cindi, I can well imagine what it would be like for your husband or son should anyone find out about your past.  And I can see it being worse for your husband than it would be for anyone else. 

Prejudice, bigotry, hatred and intolerance are alive and well in America.  I've often wanted to ask the people who say they experience none of this where they live.  I don't know one girl, CD, TG, TS, who has come out that hasn't experienced some level of prejudice. 

There's one openly gay guy in our local who is pretty well liked but he's told me horrible stories about the cowardly people who have done things behind his back.  If you get to know him you can't not like the guy but people still hate him just because he's gay.  Male dominated fields can be brutal if find a weakness in you.

I think it's wonderful there are people out there who don't have to contend with this.  But this is your situation and your reality, not ours.  We need to be cautious if we don't want our lives or the lives of our loved ones to be thrust into turmoil.  Acceptance, not passing judgement, is the answer.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on January 02, 2007, 08:32:16 AM

Quote from: Melissa on January 01, 2007, 12:30:47 PM
Then why are you continuing to work in that field?  I'm sorry, but to me this sounds a lot like "male privilege".
Melissa

Melissa, we've been through this before.  Look back on my reply the last time you asked this question.  With the exception of me being totally full time (until I have to go back to work), nothing else has changed. 

You keep harping on this male privilege thing.  I grew up in a different place and time than you.  I've spent over half a century living as male and that can't be erased, nor am I going to just walk away from everything because I fear someone crying "male privilege!".  The price I paid to get where I am today gives me the right to choose how I'm going to utilize all things at my disposal, "male privilege" included.  I will take everything I can into my female life to make it easier.  I worked for it.  I earned it.  It's mine.

First of all, I'm sorry if I upset you.  Now I never said using "male privilege" in our situations was bad and actually kind of said the opposite by stating that I really am doing the same thing right now.  Anyhow, after reading Cindi's reply combined with rereading the other responses, I think I undersdtand now. 

Melissa

Dear Julie,

You are one of my favorite people here at Susan's. I feel sad that I can't offer some good advice to you or even give you a real hug to help you get through this. It seems such a hard decision and your profession seems so demanding of your male alternate self. I had never realized until I'd read Elizabeth's post how powerful those demands are.

Please just know that, along with many others here at Susan's, you have my love, support and friendship and that we all truly care for you as our companion on this journey.

If you ever need anything, please feel free to PM me. I'd even be willing to exchange phone numbers so we could chat. Personally, I'd love to have a girl-friend to chat with.   =)

*hugs*

Genevieve

Dear Julie,
Just read through these postings.
I understand you girl. Yes it is not easy beening two people.

I was employed as a United Steel Worker, so I know the man's world that has been described all to well. Althought at the time I was in total denial I did act much more maucho at work.
Yes Julie, prejudice, bigotry, hatred and intolerance are alive and well in America.
I do not have your problem because I was permently laid off after 24 years when the department closed. The job did paid well but, because of the lay off, I have no benifits except what I put into a IRA plan.
(I'm not looking for sympathy. It was the best think that could happen to me at the time.)
I'm 56 now, working in a job that pay just a little over minumin wage (and yes I do Pc-Tech work for a noprofit company and internet sales.).
You know Julie, I am allot happier because I can act like myself instead of a macho male and I am doing work that I like. I have realized that I really hated my old job / life style at work and am glad to be done with that life. Yes money is allot tighter now but it is a better life and I wouldn't trade it for one day at the old job. I also figure I will be working right up to the day I die but that okay.
As Elizabeth said,

QuoteThis is where I add the normal disclaimers. This is just my opinion and I can't possible know what is right for you. Your results may vary, not available in all areas, while supplies last.(I stole this from someone, but I don't remember who)

Yes, do talk to you therapist Julie.

I do feel for you.
 
JR and Jillieann