This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

I believe people are born ftm (or mtf). It's not conditional on what one does about it. Now arguably, transsexual implies someone who has transitioned but I believe it's a condition we're born with before we have a chance for surgeries and the rest.

Eh, if your sex is not the same as your gender, you're not cisgendered and you face special issues in your life. If your sex is female and your gender is male, you have a lot in common with the guys who want the surgery even though you're not getting it. I don't think the inability (or lack of desire) to get surgery means you're not transgendered. If you've got female hardware and male software you're FtM, I think.

As a guy in your own mind, surgery or not, you will have things in common with other guys and things in common with us FTM guys as well so yes, not being born cisgendered it would be accurate enough to describe yourself as FTM (or in a lady's case MTF).

As Nero said Transsexual arguably implies a physical transition of a transgendered person but while it might include surgery for some guys/gals not every one desires, needs or is able to have hormones or surgery.

I thought a transsexual was someone whose brain sex didn't match their social gender and who transitions (or wishes to transition) into living as their target gender. HRT and plastic surgery (to change facial features and genitial sex) can help but I always thought that once you live as your target gender and are socially seen and accepted as your target gender that you were no long a transsexual. For me I am a transsexual (a MTF) now, and I am pre-O, then when I am on O and am doing RLE I am also a transsexual but once I transition to living fulltime to living as a woman I am no longer TS, I am a woman with a TS past, regardless of what is between my legs.

I know that the general public continues to see a trans person as trans even long after their operation and living fulltime, all their focus is put on the 'sex-change' but that is not what a transsexual is according to the definitions as commonly agreed by the trans community itself.

Afterall, many FTMs stop at a hysterectomy and do not go any farther. Some MTFs even do not get a hysterectomy done. Think of Thomas Beatie. He was seen and lived as a man for years and he still had a womb.

Quote from: Samson99 on October 17, 2010, 10:55:40 PM
This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

20 years ago, I was taught that "transexual" is someone who is actively trasnsitioning surgically, and once the surgical transition was complete, they became the destination gender.  People who transitioned socially, but not surgically, were called "non-operative transexuals."  Today, the "transexual" labe4l has fallen out of favor, and those people are typically called "non-ops," or non-op transitioners," or something like that.  Those who lived socially as the opposite sex part of the time were called "part timers."  The MTF or FTM label was applied in any of these instance, and still is as far as I know. 

However, the MTF or FTM label wasn't generally applied to anyone who wasn't transitioning.  People who cross-dressed recreationally, were simply called male crossdressers or female crossdressers.  But now, we seem to have a growing understanding of the diversity in the "transgender" community, and we have a lot more opportunity to maintain connections and community through the Internet.  AS a result, thransitioners are in frequent contact with peopl who might like to transition, but never do, and don't cross dress either.  It only makes sense, in my view, to call these people "mtf non-transitoners" or "ftm non-transitioners," or something like that.  It's clear and unambiguous.

So I would think you might call yourself an "ftm non-op," an "ftm part timer," or an "ftm non-transitioner," depending on which describes you best.  Or you might just say "mtf" if you you're not in a hurry to advertise your transition status.

I understand the need for distinct definitions, but I think first and foremost what really matters is how you identify.  Sure it'd be nice to know the proper word so you can say I am a "whatever you call it here."  But I've kinda given up on that for a while, partially because I do feel like it causes a lot of circular discussions.  I feel like a man, I feel good when I am seen and treated like a man, so before I am non-op, or trans, or whatever, I make sure that the most important term to describe or label myself as is that I am a man.  It's taken a while to come to that mindset, but it's kinda stuck.  Of course, like I said, labels and definitions have there usefulness and I kind of envy cultures that have what seven or so different kinds of gender, but what can I say, I also love simplicity.

Quote from: Samson on October 17, 2010, 10:55:40 PM
This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

When it comes down to it, when I have to tell someone, when it matters, I respond candidly with, "I'm a person who has extreme gender dysphoria about being male.  While you may have heard of others who transition to another sex to deal with it, I choose to live with the condition without changing my physical sex."  And then I let them ask questions and do my best to fill in the gaps. 

Does it have a name?  Transgendered has been used as the umbrella term, but I normally like to describe it as a condition.  I tend to say "I have GID" instead of "I am transgendered."  Am I a transsexual?  According to current diagnostic criteria, the answer is a resounding yes, but I find too many in the community don't like me identifying like that - they've reserved that term for people who are like them and they are a hard group to define - nevertheless they have no issue saying I'm not one of them.

I'll start by saying with the rate at which the definitions change and that almost all of us make up our own dictionary as we go along it doesn't help when trying to sort out the milestones that define who's what (pre, post, non, the list goes on and on).

As far as my own definition, what qualifies someone as MtF or FtM would imply that some change from point A to B has occured.  I don't think its fair to lock people out that lack the resouces to seek therapy or HRT as a means to create an obvious physical change either though.  So I would say, reducing it down to someone who has rejected their birth gender in favor of something else would probably qualify as Mt? or Ft?.  Crossdressers by defintion are not rejecting their gender, merely expressing a personality trait, so I would think the conventional labels would apply there.

Post-Op is its own world.  I certainly understand the rejection of the MtF or FtM label at that point but even to say I'm a....with a transgender past is medically inaccurate.  The reality is our bodies are different from people who haven't done the things we've done, I would argue that transgender medicine should be its own speciality becuase of the uniqueness of our bodies, referring to it as "a transgender past" ignores the fact that we can still have medical issues related to the gender we were born into, etc..  As far as society at large is concerned, we will always be transgendered.  I'm not suggesting every stealth blow their doors off, but we aren't doing ourselves any favors not to embrace our history - I for one think its a large part of what keeps us at the margins of society.

I believe the answer is yes. I was diagnosed as transsexual, my decision to try and live with the body I was born with is a choice (for me) of how to deal with it. It doesn't make me any less trans. It isn't always the easiest choice. I remain open to the possibility that I could change paths somewhere down the road.

Z

Yes, no matter how or what you decide to do ... it doesn't make you any less TG, We don't need to wear a band on our heads to show the world we are trans, we are who we are and that's enough...

You ftm or mtf whether or not you have the surgery. I was always transsexual but I never wanted to have the surgery. There's the prevailing thought that one is transsexual only if they have the surgery but that's not true.


Gennee

My opinion is that you can't measure your gender by a dictionary definition (i.e. Trans = wants surgery). Your transition is your own, and you're not any less trans or any less man than someone who does get surgery.

Your transition shouldn't be marked by tally points that the medical system gives you. Your body is your own, so claim in everyway possible.  Transitioning is a journey, and only you can say when you feel complete and connected with your body.

So to sum up... yeah, call yourself FTM. And for the love of god, don't get surgery if you don't really really *really* want to.

Quote from: interalia on December 19, 2010, 08:12:40 AM
When it comes down to it, when I have to tell someone, when it matters, I respond candidly with, "I'm a person who has extreme gender dysphoria about being male.  While you may have heard of others who transition to another sex to deal with it, I choose to live with the condition without changing my physical sex."  And then I let them ask questions and do my best to fill in the gaps. 

However, you did have one surgery.

Quote from: CaitJ on December 22, 2010, 04:23:19 PM
However, you did have one surgery.

Yup, back when I expected I would live the rest of my life as female, I had an orchi done.  It stopped my hair loss and prevented my body from further masculinizing.  I suppose then, despite the fact that I live as male now, I did "partially" transition - not because having an orchi automatically means imminent sex change, but because my intention was to continue along that path after the orchi.  I never did though.

Regardless, I don't really feel I have a name for what I am anymore either with or without the surgery.  I experience gender dysphoria.  If that makes me transgendered/transsexual so be it.

I have had my own questions about this lately. Just read through this and its helped. I definitely see myself as male and if i am honest with myself, I always have. I doubt ops would ever be an option for me. Plus i have some health problems which would interfere. But inside I am male, not female. I hate it when friends and family refer to me as female. It makes me cringe. I live as male day to day. (although i haven't come out as trans to everyone)

So is it right that i call myself FTM transgender?

I gave up defining myself as m2f transsexual or crossdresser or whatever. It is just a banal debate of nominalism vs. realism. I just try to express myself and just enjoy my own life, whatever others call or intervene me. It is not their business, but my own.

Barbie~~

I heard the talking that the diffrence between ->-bleeped-<-s and transexuals or the diffrence between transexuals and transgenderes.. is that transexuals have or want surgery while the other part dont..
I feel it bull->-bleeped-<- and way to steriotype, sure, ->-bleeped-<-s manly dont want to chance there body,
and sure transexuals manly do but this it too easy to be real.

being transexual is about how you identify, what you wanna do with your body is up to yourself,
if you cant chance your body, dont need, or dont want to, then your still transexual.

Transgender first and formost, is NOT what you own or do NOT own down below-the-belt...

I t is a mind-state of how you feel, from the inside out...

With that being said, here is something you can use, most feel that to be "proportionally correct" they have to go through "total" surgical transformation...because this is what I thought...

But after years of being who I am, I know this to be false...when I look in the mirror, I don't see a female staring back at me, I see who I truly am...a male... trapped, maybe, but I'd like to think that I was given this "host" to face challenges..of which I have successfully adapted and overcame...

Having top surgery meant that my shirts would fit the way I wanted, and needed them to fit, aesthetically pleasing...my pecs are beautiful...but I don't need to "mutilate" my body, and I am talking about f2M...because for some who feel the need to achieve the "full" male status...it is just that mutilation...and it is expensive....however, if you give me a working penis, I'll be the first one in line 

But I don't need a piece of skin to make me feel anymore than I already am...which is a male figure in a female host body....

The choice is yours...aesthetically if you feel the need for surgery to feel "completed" then go fer it....on the other hand, judging a book by it's cover, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good read...it truly IS, whats inside that counts....!

Sooo yeah, You are still f2M, even if you don't sport the surgery, it's also important to note, that if you live 24/7 as a f2M, in full-form, You also are NOT a crossdresser....I am NOT a crossdresser, because I live 24/7 as a f2M individual, and at no time do I dress in the Femm-form...

Hope this helped you...

Quote from: LaPapito on August 15, 2011, 03:19:14 AM
Transgender first and formost, is NOT what you own or do NOT own down below-the-belt...

I t is a mind-state of how you feel, from the inside out...

With that being said, here is something you can use, most feel that to be "proportionally correct" they have to go through "total" surgical transformation...because this is what I thought...

But after years of being who I am, I know this to be false...when I look in the mirror, I don't see a female staring back at me, I see who I truly am...a male... trapped, maybe, but I'd like to think that I was given this "host" to face challenges..of which I have successfully adapted and overcame...

Having top surgery meant that my shirts would fit the way I wanted, and needed them to fit, aesthetically pleasing...my pecs are beautiful...but I don't need to "mutilate" my body, and I am talking about f2M...because for some who feel the need to achieve the "full" male status...it is just that mutilation...and it is expensive....however, if you give me a working penis, I'll be the first one in line 

But I don't need a piece of skin to make me feel anymore than I already am...which is a male figure in a female host body....

The choice is yours...aesthetically if you feel the need for surgery to feel "completed" then go fer it....on the other hand, judging a book by it's cover, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good read...it truly IS, whats inside that counts....!

Sooo yeah, You are still f2M, even if you don't sport the surgery, it's also important to note, that if you live 24/7 as a f2M, in full-form, You also are NOT a crossdresser....I am NOT a crossdresser, because I live 24/7 as a f2M individual, and at no time do I dress in the Femm-form...

Hope this helped you...

Though by your definition, one could take crossgender hormones and yet wearing the clothing of their target gender anything less then 24/7 would disqualify them as transgender.  Though a person who identified solely as a "cross dresser" and did so 24/7 could also claim the transgender label without regard to any other aspect of their presentation.