Hi all,

I just realised that I haven't posted any threads for quite a while!

Well, if you still remember me, I am a MTF transgender student in a rather early stage of transitioning. I am wearing quite feminine outfits, but perhaps because the length of my hair I am not really passing as a girl. But I think I can make people hesitate for a couple of seconds before calling me 'sir', or make them don't call me anything at all.

I am, however, having troubles when I have to use the male bathroom. I feel very unconfortable that I can usually notice people watching me or staring at me. They are not kicking me out, but I can sense quite some people are unfriendly to me. When I am in campus I can easily find disabled bathrooms to go to, but when I go outside the trouble and panic begin to strike.

Is there anyone in the same situation? Should I try to 'cover up' a little bit before going to the male bathroom?

Thanks!

Tiffany

Tiffany,
When you out try to find what is called a family bathroom.
Most malls have one. 
Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it until the men start to say miss your in the wrong bathroom.
Jillieann

Feel your pain Bathrooms suck ass, or more like the people in them do. I agree with Jillieann, family bathrooms are the best choice, but if there isn't one there, I suggest trying to....male it up a little before entering. I hate to say that, but it helps to a degree. Hope you don't have too much trouble with the washrooms...

Bathrooms do suck and I also do not know the answer.  I worry on that topic, so I try to avoid going to the bathroom on the outside.  I feel weird in the men's restroom but I feel also weird in the women's restroom too.

The comment to only worry about it when you start hearing "miss, you are in the wrong restroom" makes sense, although my electrologist told me, when I asked her about it, that if I am dressing as a female in female clothing, then I should go to the women's restroom.  That is easier said than not.  You should check the ordinances in the city, where you live.  You might be okay with going to the women's restroom.

I'm in very much same situation. So I just went to full female mode and started using ladies room instead of male-ing it up as this solution was unacceptable to me.
I just remember to put a smile on and not to avoid the look exchange.
Most ladies just don't want to feel threatened in the bathroom and appearing feminine, smiling and not escaping the look exchange makes them feel more comfortable.
SMILING is the key solution to all kinds of challenges anyway. Also remember, don't stand in stall and pee!!!!!!!!
I don't pass in most women's eyes but I will pass or raise question in less trained men's eyes and that is what prompted me to make the move into the ladies room. I would also recommend checking the state,city laws on transgender policies. In Washington state I do have the right to use the bathroom consistent with my gender identity and presentation. This of course does not guarantee smooth visit to the bathroom so I would be prepared to have a good response to potential protests. I've had no problems so far and actually have gotten a smile back when nodded and smiled at a lady while recently entering bathroom. This is though very recent development so I don't have long time experience to firmly back up my approach but the beginning is promising.
good luck to you!

YES!

I am having this same problem. I really don't know why? I don't think I look to much like a girl when I'm not trying too. I have had men come in and walk out, thinking there in the wrong  bathroom. I have no choice but to use the men's room as I am not presenting female AT ALL!

I usually get looks and Mam's when my hair is up, but I try to wear it down and that doesn't work always either. Yes I could look grungier but I definitely think I don't look female.

I posted once, in a thread "how you can't pass a male any more". I posted that no matter how well you pass when presenting I still think one can pass as male. I am now finding out that it, IS, getting somewhat hard to pass as male, even if I do look grungy. That doesn't mean I still couldn't pass as male, it just means I actually have to try a little to do so.

Yes! I'm happy about this new found revelation, but its also complicated when I am not out yet and present male most of the time.

Its especially awkward when a cashier Mam's me and I presenting Male, do I correct them or do I just go with the flow. I have been just going with the flow, but its REALLY awkward when my children are present.

Then I also get to thinking, geez I wonder if some of these people think I'm just a poorly dressed cross dresser. 

Sometimes I think it would just be easier to come out and live full time.

Shelly

I would take it as a huge compliment to get ma'amed, even if you are in male mode.  You are a woman.  No?  A woman in men's clothing is still a woman.  Congrats!

When presenting as female I use the female bathroom. If I'm in drab I use a stall in the male bathroom. I haven't used one of those stand and pee things in many years Yuk.

Cindy

I have a tip that has been really helpful for me: just go! don't look in anybody's eyes, just do it!
I go to male bathrooms (i'm a ftm) and untill today I've never had any problems and I think it's because I just act like a regular guy, and don't like a kid worried about his parents.

@tiffany leung - could you use a stall? There are definitely guys who use the stalls. Unless you are confident, I'd do that until such a point as you'd really get noticed in the men's restroom.

Quote from: sarahla on December 17, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
I feel weird in the men's restroom but I feel also weird in the women's restroom too.

I feel this way too. At best I'm androgynous and I can have either women or men double-taking me. I usually scope out places for the unisex bathroom (just a single room). If it's just big public restroom I'm always stressed out. If it's crowded though, sometimes I'll actually go for the men's and just make a b-line for a stall ... because there never seems to be a line in a men's restroom. However there will be one out the door in the women's and then I'd have to stand there and then inevitably people will be having conversations and interacting while in the line and that makes me even more uncomfortable. I've even been in the women's restroom where women are having conversations with each other through the stalls. That just boggles my mind. Like why would you want to carry on a convo when you're in there??

I have had some strange looks in the men's bathroom when in male mode,  but I'm usually quickly in and out and don't give many people enough time to study me. Thankfully it hasn't been an issue

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 17, 2010, 10:44:36 PM
I usually get looks and Mam's when my hair is up, but I try to wear it down and that doesn't work always either. Yes I could look grungier but I definitely think I don't look female.

I get ma'amed a lot more when my hair is in a ponytail or otherwise put up. It makes my face look more feminine for some reason, I think it's because it just shows off my small build when people can see my neck.

Quote
I posted once, in a thread "how you can't pass a male any more". I posted that no matter how well you pass when presenting I still think one can pass as male. I am now finding out that it, IS, getting somewhat hard to pass as male, even if I do look grungy. That doesn't mean I still couldn't pass as male, it just means I actually have to try a little to do so.

Yes! I'm happy about this new found revelation, but its also complicated when I am not out yet and present male most of the time.

Its especially awkward when a cashier Mam's me and I presenting Male, do I correct them or do I just go with the flow. I have been just going with the flow, but its REALLY awkward when my children are present.

I got ma'amed by a cashier in full male mode, using male voice, wearing a male mechanic's uniform with a patch declaring my male name. So, yeah, I think it does get harder to pass. Of course I am narrow-shouldered, small boned, thin, and only about 5'8", which helps me pass as a slightly tall woman, but not as a man.

I just usually go with the flow. I never correct anyone for calling me ma'am no matter what... because it's correct :-)

Quote
Then I also get to thinking, geez I wonder if some of these people think I'm just a poorly dressed cross dresser. 

I think that people just think I'm a butch lesbian.

Quote
Sometimes I think it would just be easier to come out and live full time.

Sometimes I think so too. But then I'd lose my $75k a year job and not be able to afford to transition within my timetable...

From my experience, the men's restroom is a place where virtually everything is okay.  Men do not care.  It is women who throw a fit if they see someone who does not belong.  Maybe F2M have something to worry about, but unless they wear a dress and a sign around their neck saying "arrest me, as I want  to test the laws" or something like that, it is hard to imagine something bad happening.  You just go.  To go to the women's restroom, you have to more or less be a woman (look like one).

At my previous workplace, another M2F person, who wore dresses, but was rather tall and looked like a transsexual (sorry, that was the truth) was okay in the downstairs restroom, but she drew complaints when using the upstairs women's restroom.  There was this cis-gendered woman upstairs that threw a big fuss.  Company policy was trans-friendly, so nothing bad happened, but that kind of says something.  That was here in Los Angeles.

I get where you are coming from! It's the same with me. I started to grow my hair 5 years ago and that is when my trouble in the men's bathroom started and has never really stopped. But I just try to go in and get out as fast as possible and ignore people's stares and looks.

I have never had any trouble in the men's restroom, not that I use public restrooms much.  I probably still look gender neutral or obviously male, so maybe that is why I am not having issues.  Okay, I have not gone into the men's restroom wearing the blouse in the photograph above either.

I know that I worry about the topic, but thankfully I can work around the problem.

I go to the health club and into the men's area.  I have yet to see anyone look at me or say anything to me.   Is that a bad sign?

Personally, I would not mind a "ma'am, you are in the wrong locker room comment one day soon."

Quote from: envie on December 17, 2010, 06:27:13 PM
I'm in very much same situation. So I just went to full female mode and started using ladies room instead of male-ing it up as this solution was unacceptable to me.
I just remember to put a smile on and not to avoid the look exchange.
Most ladies just don't want to feel threatened in the bathroom and appearing feminine, smiling and not escaping the look exchange makes them feel more comfortable.
SMILING is the key solution to all kinds of challenges anyway. Also remember, don't stand in stall and pee!!!!!!!!
I don't pass in most women's eyes but I will pass or raise question in less trained men's eyes and that is what prompted me to make the move into the ladies room. I would also recommend checking the state,city laws on transgender policies. In Washington state I do have the right to use the bathroom consistent with my gender identity and presentation. This of course does not guarantee smooth visit to the bathroom so I would be prepared to have a good response to potential protests. I've had no problems so far and actually have gotten a smile back when nodded and smiled at a lady while recently entering bathroom. This is though very recent development so I don't have long time experience to firmly back up my approach but the beginning is promising.
good luck to you!

I know this is an older post but this is spot on! Smile Smile and SMILE! The rest of this message is right on the money as well (as far as I am concerned).

And a little history on my transition:

Early last year I began to present more female than male at work. I suddenly reached a point where I was wearing full makeup yet still using the mens room. I walked into one mens room on our campus one day and this guy was at the urinal. He looked at me and did a double take..zipped up quickly and bolted out the door. I couldn't help but laugh. But I became so uncomfortable and scared for my safety that it put me into a panic/anxiety mode. I had told our HR department about my transition about 6 months prior. After I realized I had to get my transition officially started I went to HR and told them "here we go". Meetings were setup with the local LGBT director, HR, my boss and then my bosses boss. Within 2 weeks of me going to HR the letter went out (to hundreds of people) and it was done. I have not used a mens room since that day (anywhere).

Quote from: Marcelo Caetano on December 19, 2010, 04:13:18 PM
I have a tip that has been really helpful for me: just go! don't look in anybody's eyes, just do it!
I go to male bathrooms (i'm a ftm) and untill today I've never had any problems and I think it's because I just act like a regular guy, and don't like a kid worried about his parents.

I think you are probably right for an FtM going to a mens room but for a women's room I believe eye contact and a smile works. Just my opinion. Guys seem not to feel as comfortable with eye to eye contact from strangers as women do.

You know, I tell you what.. I've never had a problem when I wanted to go into one bathroom or the other. Just do it with confidence. If walk in like a stiff wind is about to blow you over, men and women will pick up on that. If you walk in naturally like there's nowhere else you should be, then there's not usually a problem. No one is going to make you drop your pants to prove you're a woman, and we come in all different shapes and sizes.

Just think, where would a very large, well-muscled, masculine-looking female bodybuilder use the bathroom (aside from anywhere she wants)? And she would stick out more than you do now.

Last time I used the mens bathroom at a shopping mall was just before Christmas,
While I was washing my hands this guy came in, turned around and walked out, then 20 sec later when I was drying my hands he came back in, walking very slowly past me, head turning to stare at me the entire time, while also slightly leaning towards me so that his face was no more than 10 cm avay.
Most scary thing I have ever experienced, there was only the two of us in there, and he just had this look on his face as if he was thinking about punching me.

I still use the mens rom at work, but anywhere else, it is the womens or handicap bathroom.

Maybe it's just me being a transgressive person in general, but I love walking into the men's restroom in full female regalia, only to use the urinal.  I don't normally do that, but if I'm somewhere that I'm confident I will never return to again, it's hilarious to see the facial expressions/discomfort/etc.

On other occasions (besides when I'm feeling crazy and do something similar to the above), I will pick a bathroom based on what I'm wearing, run in as fast as I can and get out of there.