Clearly I disagree with the others who have said to keep your secret a secret.  I do think marriage counseling is the right idea, however its not going to work worth a damn if you're not honest about what brought you there in the first place, which means coming clean about your cheating.  What caused you to cheat in the first place?  The cheating itself is just a symptom of what's wrong with your marriage, not the problem itself.

If you don't fix what's wrong this is going to happen again and again.  You know it, whether you want to admit it or not, if you and paula can cheat on your spouses with eachother, then you can just as easily cheat on eachother.  Ask yourself, how long before that happens?

exactly the cheating was just a symptom

If you treat the cause you need not worry about the symptom in this case.

i can't believe there are so many posts here defending the sanctity of marriage or some kind of sacred contract. especially when maybe half of us aren't even allowed to get married because we identify as gay transgender men or women, or we haven't taken that one particularly mechanical step in transition, loping off (or on) a part of our bodies. marriage is pretty much a state/church-established way to keep us from equality or justice or from simply having fun. it's always been that way. this kind of honoring of marriage is particularly ridiculous in places that encourage/force abstinence before marriage, so that stupid kids get married before knowing what sex is, and what kind of sex is good for them.

love, communication, and honesty are what counts. i agree wholeheartedly with those who say it's the cheating that's the problem here. he's a man who cheats. lots of women have faced that particular cruelty of life. it's a feminist issue. he's someone who expects sympathy as a cheater because he's ->-bleeped-<-ing a ->-bleeped-<-. as feminists we don't give it to him.

Quote from: kayg on December 22, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
i can't believe there are so many posts here defending the sanctity of marriage or some kind of sacred contract.

I've got a marriage that is not recognized in many parts of the US (certainly in some parts of Texas), many countries in the world, etc.  This is true of any marriage where one of the participants has a sex that isn't universally recognized.  But that doesn't eliminate the meaning of a marriage.  It's not something everyone would want, and that's fine - different people will want different kinds of commitment and will value things differently.  For me, I would never violate my marriage - if I fell out of love with my wife, and wanted someone else, I would be honest with her and seek divorce.  I would not lie to her and use her as my "backup plan" if what I really wanted didn't work out - because in our understanding of marriage (my wife's and my understanding, that is), this is a commitment to honesty, among other things.

But different people will have different views - that's fine.  Religious views (or lack of them) will certainly change people's opinions, too.

There are also at least three parts of marriage.  Not all marriages have all three:

1) Promises between spouses
2) Legal Obligations, Rights, and Responsibilities
3) Social recognition

For me, no matter if my wife and I go to Texas or not, #1 remains valid.  #2 is valid where we live now, and in much of the US, but would not be valid in some jurisdictions.  We're both fighting hard to make #2 valid in the entire country.  #3 is valid among our friends and most of the people we know, but not among everyone who knows us.  Some of our family members, for instance, would not even house sit for us during our wedding because of their views (they wanted nothing to do with being *at* the wedding, nor did they recognize it with even a word after the wedding; we both think they are still shocked that we are legally recognized as married where we live now - we don't think they thought it was "real").  It'll be a wonderful day indeed when #1, #2, and #3 are available to all who want them (including me).

Of all these, for me, #1 is the most important one.  It's my spouse that matters the most, not the government, not the minister, not my family.  But it would be less painful if the others recognized love all the time.  And I believe my marriage would be strengthened the minute everyone has access to marriage who wants it - right now it carries the taint of discrimination (I just happen to be, based on where I currently live, on the lucky side).

That said, for me, like you, love, communication, and honesty are the most important things.  I'm lucky in that I can say "marriage" to simply explaining my relationship with my wife, but, honestly, I would have felt the same obligations to if we weren't allowed to marry.

I support:
a) everybodies right to make that contract
or
b) nobodies right to make that contract


Either way.  One or the other.  But good for all, or good for none.  Any other way is UnAmerican.

Quote from: kayg on December 22, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
love, communication, and honesty are what counts. i agree wholeheartedly with those who say it's the cheating that's the problem here. he's a man who cheats. lots of women have faced that particular cruelty of life. it's a feminist issue. he's someone who expects sympathy as a cheater because he's ->-bleeped-<-ing a ->-bleeped-<-. as feminists we don't give it to him.

First of all I don't expect sympathy, i don't expect anything, i posted on here to get opinion and maybe some help. I certainly got both although yours is one I will be taking least notice of.
Yes I was cheating , and so was Paula, the reason we both did was because we were both in situations in our marriages where love, affection and communication was lost. Separate beds, separate rooms and as good as separate lives under our own respective roofs. We both felt the need for love, everyone wants to be loved dont they ? Neither of us wanted to go the rest of our life without any love, affection and attention. If we had that within our marriages then we wouldnt have cheated.
Fortunately for Paula she has been able to rediscover love and affection in her marriage and it is only what has happened between us that has changed things with her wife.

I was not "->-bleeped-<-ing a ->-bleeped-<-" as you so delightfully put it. We made love and my partner was transsexual. I posted it on a transgender site, i didnt realise it was a feminist forum.
My marriage lost the love, then the communication and then the honesty. The cheating did not start until 7 years of seperate rooms. The cheating was not the problem, it was the result of losing the other two traits first.

"Real feminists" never defend marriage and/or proprietary relationships, that should have been the first clue.  Feminists also know that it's not only men who cheat.

Quote from: ponty on December 24, 2010, 05:18:49 PM
Yes I was cheating , and so was Paula, the reason we both did was because we were both in situations in our marriages where love, affection and communication was lost. Separate beds, separate rooms and as good as separate lives under our own respective roofs. We both felt the need for love, everyone wants to be loved dont they ? Neither of us wanted to go the rest of our life without any love, affection and attention. If we had that within our marriages then we wouldnt have cheated.
My marriage lost the love, then the communication and then the honesty. The cheating did not start until 7 years of seperate rooms. The cheating was not the problem, it was the result of losing the other two traits first.

Lots of people end up in that situation, they don't cheat - they fix the problem that caused the loss of love, affection and attention or they get divorced.  You chose to cheat, no one forced you to.  All I see is you blaming your wife for the choices you made and further complicating the issue by lying (a lie of ommission) to her.

Quote from: regan on December 26, 2010, 05:49:40 PM
All I see is you blaming your wife for the choices you made

Please remind me where I have blamed my wife ? I have never blamed her once.

It's ok Regan, I get it loud and clear, I am the person here who isn't transgender or have any issues over my sexuality but I have been unfaithful with a TS woman and potentially put her SO at risk in their relationship and therefore I am a baddie. Oh the irony of the prejudice.

  I think this thread has run it's course.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think continuing to bash someone over the head when they have admitted that they made a mistake starts to cross the line into personal attacks which I am sure I need not remind you Regan constitutes a violation under TOS rule 15. Consider yourself lucky that I am feeling generous today.

Ponty I am also sure that if you read back through the thread there were those of us (myself included) who whilst not entirely approving of the situation did try to remain even handed and take a more pragmatic and practical view.

Either way, I think you have suffered more than enough abuse with considerable dignity. I have no doubt that if you could go back and do things differently you probably would.

Therefore I am now locking this thread to prevent further prolonging of the agony.

THREAD LOCKED