So, just got home from shopping, ok, it's Walmart, but eh, it's close. Anyways, started out alright, stopped by the in store McDonalds there, the woman taking the orders avoided use of any pronouns with me even though she Ma'am'd and Sir'd the other customers, hey, I'm cool with that, I'd rather not be refereed to by any pronoun over being refereed to as the wrong one, even after she heard my voice she still didn't Ma'am me, just stuck to no pronoun usage, like she didn't know quite what to make of me, but hey, that's still cool, she was respectful and all. Well I got a few odd looks while shopping, but there were merely glances, same kinds of glances I got before beginning to work towards a male appearance, I'm use to those, after all it's not every day someone sees a 6'1" redhead, I kinda stick out, always have so kinda use to those looks of "Huh, what?" Anyways, I tried to avoid talking too much because I know my voice, while slightly deep for my physical birth sex, still holds a few feminine qualities. Well here in lays the problem. My roommate is notoriously absent minded, would walk into an in store display were it not for me sometimes (And she HAS done so before >_>).

Well, we're at the checkout and my roommate's standing there playing with her nails while I'm trying to hand the bags to her for a little help in loading up the basket while checking out, I'm sitting there, holding out the bag, she's there absentmindedly playing with her nails while I still need to grab other bags and put them in (I had been stacking the bags within arms reach and, well, nothing else could fit at arms reach thus needed a hand as to not waste the cashier's time) this starts getting me very, very annoyed so I hit my 'serious tone' with my roommate, a sharp, sudden, loud tone, sadly a tone that also is undeniably female instead of deep with just a hint of feminine, which can leave people unsure of which pronoun to use. Well, the cashier had, up until this point, avoided using gender specific pronouns but after she heard that vocal tone, I got Ma'am'd for the first time in the whole shopping trip, she also said it a lot lower than she had been speaking previously.

Was she still unsure if she was using the right pronoun thus why she lowered her voice? I suspect that might be it but I'm not sure. I was doing so good during the shopping trip too, didn't get Ma'am'd once until then. This temper of mine is going to be my biggest downfall cause, when I hit that tone, well, it's been called the "Mom tone" by my friends before, and it is, sadly, without a doubt the sound of a pissed off feminine voice despite it's deepness, just something bout that tone pegs as female no matter what. I hate it, I really do, as much as people have told me it's scary when I hit that tone, it still pegs me as female and that's what I'm trying to avoid. I know the most logical answer is to not let my temper flare, but when you feel like you're having to babysit your roommate in a public store, it's kinda hard to not get a bit peeved, specially when they've been doing absent minded things the whole shopping trip when you just want to get in, get what you need and get out. I was cool with people not using either pronoun or not knowing what to make of me, at least that means my appearance wasn't screaming female, but still to go the whole time and not get Ma'am'd, being so close to getting the hell outta there and then, right at the home stretch "Have a nice day Ma'am." . . .sooooooo close, then, just a 'DAMMIT!' moment. I actually facepalmed when she called me Ma'am, she didn't make eye contact with me after that >_>. Sorry for the rant session but, sometimes, someone just needs to rant, and with this, I did.

Anyone else ever had something like this happen, where you're soooooo close to getting through something without an improper pronoun being used and then, a few paces from the checked flag *BAM* there's that wrong pronoun?

Sidenote, I really REALLY needa work on that temper of mine, that voice tone was the only thing that seemed to give me away. . .

Yep, my voice has given me away. Even after it changed because I sometimes slip back into a different tone in certain situations. Starting to get better though or is it the beard where it doesn't give me away anymore? Probably the beard. 

Beard: The great doubt remover! . . .Have a feeling this lil issue will be pretty much resolved once I get on T though, just slow and steady, progress is progress.

At least the rest of the trip went well.  I also wanted to add that my brother used to get ma'amed when he had longer hair despite the fact that he dressed very masculinely and had a full beard.  People cue onto weird things with appearance.

Quote from: Lee on December 23, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
At least the rest of the trip went well.  I also wanted to add that my brother used to get ma'amed when he had longer hair despite the fact that he dressed very masculinely and had a full beard.  People cue onto weird things with appearance.

Yea, it went well, it was just kinda a "Cmon! I was -this- close!" thing. And getting Ma'am'd with a full bread, yikes, welp, we know that cashier hadn't had their coffee that morning.

Glad to hear your passing rate is improving with the beard, Nero.   


Jay

My grandma will use female pronouns on guys with long hair. Today at work a customer used male pronouns with a female. He just said that he never looked up, just saw that they were tall and instantly thought tall = guy. You pass really well for being pre T. And you are very lucky to be in the 6 foot club. I will never hit 6 foot even if I had leg lengthening surgery. I'm 5'5, in the morning.

Quote from: Sharky on December 23, 2010, 08:51:05 PM
My grandma will use female pronouns on guys with long hair. Today at work a customer used male pronouns with a female. He just said that he never looked up, just saw that they were tall and instantly thought tall = guy. You pass really well for being pre T. And you are very lucky to be in the 6 foot club. I will never hit 6 foot even if I had leg lengthening surgery. I'm 5'5, in the morning.

Yeah I'm only 5'6. I think when people see someone out of the corner of their eye, they rely on height first. I've had short cis guy friends who got ma'amed a lot.

I honestly wish I was a little taller, I'm the short one in my immediate family, mother's 6'3" and 'father' is 6'5". . .wish I could steal a few of their inches, but hey, least I don't need help reaching the top shelves! Even if I do need to watch out for low light fixtures, they tend to be very unforgiving towards foreheads.

I actually find it sort of funny everyone seems to think I pass pretty well, I still keep seeing my female features and look more in between to myself, then again, we are our own worst critics. That likely plays into it a lot especially since I tend to be a bit hard on myself to begin with.

Quote from: Victor on December 23, 2010, 09:10:24 PM
I honestly wish I was a little taller, I'm the short one in my immediate family, mother's 6'3" and 'father' is 6'5". . .wish I could steal a few of their inches, but hey, least I don't need help reaching the top shelves! Even if I do need to watch out for low light fixtures, they tend to be very unforgiving towards foreheads.

I actually find it sort of funny everyone seems to think I pass pretty well, I still keep seeing my female features and look more in between to myself, then again, we are our own worst critics. That likely plays into it a lot especially since I tend to be a bit hard on myself to begin with.

Well, you look like you have that brow thing going on all the girls here want rid of. 

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 23, 2010, 09:36:05 PM
Well, you look like you have that brow thing going on all the girls here want rid of. 

That's for sure.
Victor looking at your pic, no way would I say female.
But Forum Admin has a severe case of constipation.

Yes the voice gives so many of us away. Mine is very deep.  I have to admit that the more I move on the less I care about what people think.  On reflection that has been the biggest gain in a year of massive changes to my body, psyche and relationships. I can honestly say I can now go public with the awareness that I will be read and I don't care.

Have a good one Guys

Cindy

Quote from: sneakersjay on December 23, 2010, 01:33:32 PM
Glad to hear your passing rate is improving with the beard, Nero.   


Jay

Thanks. 

Victor, I'm learning that there always seems to be something that outs you, and maybe that continues until very late in transition, or at least until you experience a wide range of "outings" and learn what sorts of things will trip you up.  I've been out on two shopping trips en-femme now, and in both cases there were things I didn't think of ahead of time.  The first time, since it was just before payday (not much cash in bank), I was planning to charge my purchases.  As I'm getting dressed, I suddenly realize... "Oh, ->-bleeped-<-... the credit card has 'HIS' name on it...", so I stopped at a bank machine and took a cash advance on the credit card.  Just last Tuesday, on my second shopping trip, I was buying the glasses you see me wearing here, and when I went to present my prescription, again... "Oh, crap - THAT name again!" so I had to give them my personal details as Him, even though I'm dressed as in my avatar picture.  Then I went to the makeup counter at the department store, and got a makeover.  THAT lady was aware, of course, because I had to remove my old makeup so she saw my whiskers, but I didn't care in that case, because that was just how it had to be.

But I guess what I'm saying is, count your successes as being worth twice as much, and your slip-ups as being worth half as much, and you'll have it about right.  Don't sweat the small stuff, and it's almost ALL small stuff.  You're doing great, and I agree, your avatar shows a very attractive young man.

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on December 24, 2010, 07:41:30 AM
Victor, I'm learning that there always seems to be something that outs you, and maybe that continues until very late in transition, or at least until you experience a wide range of "outings" and learn what sorts of things will trip you up.  I've been out on two shopping trips en-femme now, and in both cases there were things I didn't think of ahead of time.  The first time, since it was just before payday (not much cash in bank), I was planning to charge my purchases.  As I'm getting dressed, I suddenly realize... "Oh, ->-bleeped-<-... the credit card has 'HIS' name on it...", so I stopped at a bank machine and took a cash advance on the credit card.  Just last Tuesday, on my second shopping trip, I was buying the glasses you see me wearing here, and when I went to present my prescription, again... "Oh, crap - THAT name again!" so I had to give them my personal details as Him, even though I'm dressed as in my avatar picture.  Then I went to the makeup counter at the department store, and got a makeover.  THAT lady was aware, of course, because I had to remove my old makeup so she saw my whiskers, but I didn't care in that case, because that was just how it had to be.

But I guess what I'm saying is, count your successes as being worth twice as much, and your slip-ups as being worth half as much, and you'll have it about right.  Don't sweat the small stuff, and it's almost ALL small stuff.  You're doing great, and I agree, your avatar shows a very attractive young man.

Thanks Colleen, and Cindy, ya'll do have a very good point, there is always going to be something that can end up outing someone, comes with the territory I suppose. I think why this bugged me was because I had unrealistic pressures on myself to pass, and when I didn't fully (though I still have a feeling the cashier who ma'am'd me wasn't 100% sure) I read too much into it and let it get to me too much. But then again, when I think about it there's things about bio-males that get them ma'am'd, like my oldest cousin who, if someone hears his voice without seeing him fully, gets ma'am'd (Seriously, he's totally androgynous in appearance, only thing that tells him as male is stubble and a lack of breast) I had failed to actually, fully think of such things previously, considered them yes but didn't seriously think into them. Amazing what a good night's rest can do for one's ability to fully take in and consider all the different variables and possible causes in a situation.

Thanks ya'll, ya'll have a really good point, I'm focusing too much on the small things, this is part of who I am, a part I shouldn't feel like I need to hide, if someone notices they notice, hell, if someone notices and is curious about why I'm doing this then it's a chance to maybe explain a bit about what it's like to be transsexual and hopefully inform someone who doesn't understand. Looking at it from a different perspective, well there just may be a silver lining to that cloud.

Quote from: Victor on December 24, 2010, 10:26:55 AM...hell, if someone notices and is curious about why I'm doing this then it's a chance to maybe explain a bit about what it's like to be transsexual and hopefully inform someone who doesn't understand. Looking at it from a different perspective, well there just may be a silver lining to that cloud.

There you go.  It's always good to have a chance to educate someone.  Depressing running into those who don't care to be educated, but explaining to someone who's willing to consider the question honestly can leave you with a really warm glow...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on December 24, 2010, 12:19:37 PM
There you go.  It's always good to have a chance to educate someone.  Depressing running into those who don't care to be educated, but explaining to someone who's willing to consider the question honestly can leave you with a really warm glow...

Yea, I think that's how I'm going to move forward with this, yea, there's always gonna be those who are set in their preconceived judgments, who think their way is the only way, but on the flip side there's those who will listen and take the views of others into account, it takes just one catalyst to begin a chain reaction, even if the chain is small, progress is progress.

ma'am thing bites.. but it happens. Rarely but it does. Normally only to me when I have to show some kind of ID somewhere. DX

People are fond of avoiding pronouns entirely with me... and my voice does mess it up sometimes, I won't be paying attention and it gets away from me. I had an interesting encounter the other day where I was shopping and a woman approached me from an angle with, "anything I can help you find, ma'am?" Then she saw my face and stuttered, "Sir?" And she was awkward for the rest of my trip there. It was actually pretty funny, reminded me that I need a haircut pretty badly, I think the length is why she misgendered me. Oh, and the fact I'm 5'3. I envy your height.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on December 26, 2010, 02:38:26 PM
People are fond of avoiding pronouns entirely with me... and my voice does mess it up sometimes, I won't be paying attention and it gets away from me. I had an interesting encounter the other day where I was shopping and a woman approached me from an angle with, "anything I can help you find, ma'am?" Then she saw my face and stuttered, "Sir?" And she was awkward for the rest of my trip there. It was actually pretty funny, reminded me that I need a haircut pretty badly, I think the length is why she misgendered me. Oh, and the fact I'm 5'3. I envy your height.

The moment of realization there. Least she got the gender right afterwards even if it was a lil awkward for her from that point. Ended up going out again today, a much longer trip, restaurant and a bit of clothes shopping to replace the old wardrobe, it went much better this time. Ran into one person who knows me but they always just call me Vic anyways so there was no pronoun issue there, didn't get Ma'am'd once this time, actually got sired by one of the waitresses at the restaurant, that felt pretty good, though it's also interesting, when I was nervous during the previous shopping trip I had more worry bout passing and ended up Ma'am'd but not Sir'd, this time, I just said hell with it, if someone asks they ask, it happens and was just being myself this time, not worrying bout my voice and didn't end up Ma'am'd but most avoided any pronouns and one even Sir'd me. I really think the nervousness before played in a bit, felt a lot better about it all this time.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on December 26, 2010, 02:38:26 PM
People are fond of avoiding pronouns entirely with me...

Same here, I have only had pronouns once in the last six months.
Was at maccas, and the dude used them a lot.

Was that a medium meal? Sir,
coke for the drink? Sir,
was that all? Sir,
that will be $.$$ Sir,
enjoy your meal Sir,
sorry Sir,
here you go Sir,
have a nice day Sir,

Seemed a bit excessive.
Was slightly annoyed, but I just tried to smile at him.
To be honest I am actually amazed about how many times he managed to say 'sir' in such a short conversation, I have been to formal black tie events and never have I heard that many pronouns in a single conversation before.