Quote from: jade on December 26, 2010, 06:18:40 PM
As far as the cisgendered homeless, they can go get a job. I feel more sorry for the issues transgendered girls go through daily.

How judgmental and ignorant of you. 

Quote from: Victor on December 26, 2010, 06:05:44 PM
A lot of homeless people (not all, no where's near all, but enough to be noticeable) do have issues, be they drinking/drug problems, or mental issues, so it is very possible that they weren't fully there when they Sir'd you. That also being said, there are some who are ashamed of having to ask for help, thus avoid looking directly at someone and default to Sir.

Though looking through this thread one thing makes me cringe, and that is the noticeable opinion that homeless people are to blame for their own situation, while this may be the case for at least half of the homeless population, it is not the case for all who are homeless. There are some who are disabled and fighting to survive without much luck or family to help them while fighting to try to get assistance from the organizations who offer it (those organizations are so use to people taking advantage of the handouts that they sometimes make getting help hard for those who really need it to discourage the lazy who don't need it from taking advantage.) or just ended up down on their luck, I know, I was on the streets for two years myself due to being young with no safe place to turn for help and no experience to help me make my way. I got out that situation, but it took me two years to get on stable footing. So please don't judge all homeless people the same, some of them are there due to their own stupidity yes, but not all of them are, some really are trying. Sadly unless someone smells of booze there's no way of telling which is which, thus why I normally just advise them on the location of a nearby foodbank to try to help them along and leave it at that.

Victor.

I understand the points you're making. You are perfectly correct that we shouldn't condem people who are homeless. I don't personally accept that anyone intentionally makes themselvs homeless.

Like you, I was also living rough on several occasions. I still recall the veyr first time I climed into a skip. (Dumpster in the US). I was so cold and that was the only place where I could get decent shelter.

But whatever the reasons for being homeless, I don't believe that giving people money is the answer. Unless we have enormous amounts, all we can ever hope is to keep them where they are.

If we had a large sum, we might manage to get one homeless person out of the street. But just who do you pick?

It's an old cleche that no mattr what you do, they will end upback there. But sadly, so often it's true.

In my case for example, I couldn't hold down a job then, simply because I lacked the capacity to concentrate for any length of time. I also would lose my temper rather badly, if disturbed. That is also an isolated case. I don't mention that as being representive. But rather as an example.

I feel so desperately sad for homeless people. But I won't give them money. That is demeaning and achieves nothing.

Just my own point of view. Will welcome any rebuttals.

Quote from: spacial on December 27, 2010, 06:30:43 AM
But whatever the reasons for being homeless, I don't believe that giving people money is the answer. Unless we have enormous amounts, all we can ever hope is to keep them where they are.

I guess where we differ is that I don't think it's in any way a waste, or a poor investment of resources, to make someone a little more comfortable for a few hours or a day. The $5 I might give a homeless person will mean a lot more to them than it means to me. Even if it's not a long-term solution. And I'd rather give it directly to a person, to be spent freely, to give them that small sense of empowerment, rather than give to a charity that will take part of it for overhead expenses and then use the rest to provide restrictive services that impede autonomy and create a sense of powerlessness.

Is handing people money demeaning? Sure. I've been on the receiving end, I know. But when your day is an endless cycle of "demeaning," sometimes demeaning kindness starts to look really really good next to demeaning cruelty, cold indifference, and patronizing paternalism.

Quote from: kyril on December 27, 2010, 10:08:46 AM
I guess where we differ is that I don't think it's in any way a waste, or a poor investment of resources, to make someone a little more comfortable for a few hours or a day. The $5 I might give a homeless person will mean a lot more to them than it means to me. Even if it's not a long-term solution. And I'd rather give it directly to a person, to be spent freely, to give them that small sense of empowerment, rather than give to a charity that will take part of it for overhead expenses and then use the rest to provide restrictive services that impede autonomy and create a sense of powerlessness.

Is handing people money demeaning? Sure. I've been on the receiving end, I know. But when your day is an endless cycle of "demeaning," sometimes demeaning kindness starts to look really really good next to demeaning cruelty, cold indifference, and patronizing paternalism.

Despite my earlier statements, I don't think in general you should give money to the homeless.
That $5 is just as likely to be used to score more drugs than food.

I'm not saying don't give charity, just don't be an enabler either. You really wanna do good? See what they want the money for and offer to buy it with or for them if it's something essential. Buuuut that's too much work for most people, that's why we have organized charities.

Not so long ago I was in a position where I could hire day laborers.  I have the same job, but not enough work now.  I frequently offered panhandlers and street people jobs, told them  where and when to show up.  I never had ONE take advantage of the offer.  Because it is warm down here in Tampa, the number of panhandlers has been skyrocketing.  The local newspapers, especially the St. Petersburg Times, has done interviews, and investigations on this population.  A very high percentage are criminals.  Many with violent and sexual misconduct backgrounds.  A good panhandler, on a good site, hitting up people stopped for traffic lights can make about $15 hr with no taxes.  There have been fights over the best sites, and the strong kick out the weak.  I personally would be concerned if someone was purposely misidentifying me. Perhaps they are trying to bait or goad you into a fight.
As much as I want to help others, I do it with donations to local charities.  I specifically avoid the Salvation army because they have funded anti-gay initiatives in different parts of the country.

It also has to be said that, for many on the streets, buying drugs or cheap wine is as important an even more so, than buying food. Though few will openly admit it, it at least takes away the pain of their dispair.

A month ago as we had our first snow, I saw a man outside a grocery store, he was in a wheel chair.
He stopped me and asked if I had some change he might have. I said "No, but what do you need." He explained he needed bread butter and milk most of all but anything would be good. I said "Okay I'll be back"  He called after me that it can be the cheapest I can find.

Went in and did my own shopping for myself and my parents. I picked him up a toast bread and a french bread. A pound of butter 3 bags of milk, some canned fruit and stews. On exiting he sat there looking chilled I set the 3 bags containing the things I got for him in his lap and he said thank you and secured them with a cord so he wouldn't drop them. I waited there a little while till he was out of sight then followed in my car. Sure enough about a block away he rolled his chair to the front of a run down apartment unit, struggled with the door and two young children came out and helped him inside.  A out of work disabled father trying to feed his family.

I let a local food bank know about the situation and have taken hampers with my own donations and other things from the food bank to him twice. The food bank sent a big hamper with food and toys for his kids.  His pension pays for his rent heat electric leaving very little for food. But now he doesn't have to beg.
A little time and contacting the local food bank for him. As his pride was so wounded that he could not do so himself. Was all he needed.

There are the homeless and then there are the HOMELESS, Buy them food don't give them money.  The ones that are really in need will show you how much it means to them.  The others will be gone before you get back out the store.

hugs all Simone.
PS I can't wait to be ma am'd, I don't pass well enough to expect to be Ma'amd yet but it is something to look forward too.

It's easy to pick on the homeless for having drug and alcohol issues, but it's important to remember that a good deal of them are self medicating some very serious issues.  There are approximately 600.000 homeless people living in the United States today; of them, approximately 200.000 are schizophrenic.  Many schizophrenic people do go through a stage of alcohol abuse, because alcohol can control the hallucinations to some degree.  Once it stops helping though, they're left worse than before; schizophrenic, broke, and addicted to boot. 

That's the way Simone.

I would do that and be pleased to.

Really pleased you have a place like your local food bank.


I also have to agree with long's point. There are many who are very desperate.

If we can tell them apart, then I think most of us would do whatever we could.