I so don't get this..

This is about pronouns. The people who still use wrong pronouns are my family, friends and neighbours. Basically only people who knew me before I started to transition. The fact that others do use the right pronouns still feels like a godsgift to me, but that's another topic.. With family I can be pretty patient, but with friends; not so much anymore.. They are open-minded and intelligent people.

Why is it that someone who is open-minded and intelligent and supportive to me does not seem to understand AT ALL that I prefer and need her to use the right pronouns??

This is about a conversation I had with a friend yesterday. She's a lesbian (you will understand the relevance later on). She used wrong pronouns (again) so I decide to mention it to her right away. I tell her that it would really help me if she would use the right pronouns, and not just every now and then. She says she understands but stares at me with glazy eyes so I can tell that she really does not understand. I decide to explain some more. I tell her that when people use the wrong pronouns that it makes me feel bad, that it makes me feel like they don't understand me and what transitioning is about and I ask her if she doesn't think it's odd that only people who knew me before I started transition use the wrong pronouns. I tell her that wrong pronouns can lead to embarrassing and confusing situations and that if she doesn't get used to pronouns now that she probable never will. That last part she did seem to understand. She then asks me something like: 'Oh, you want me to say she/her ALREADY??'. I'm like 'uhmm yeeeah?!'. It was difficult to have a decent conversation because there was another person in the kitchen whom I did not want to bother with this. Mind you, I only met that other person just yesterday and she told me later that night that it would have been weird for her to have called me male things. Anyway, my friend and I had ended that conversation because it didn't really was the time and place. She then called me she once or twice and after that she just went back to using he. It just makes me sooo tired. Is this about her having problems with adjusting her image of me?

Later on she mentions something about some new gay meetings in some gay bar and that we really should be going there together. I should mention that we used to go to gay clubs and stuff together, back when I was also still 'gay' (lol), but that was a long time ago. I don't feel any connection with the gay scene anymore at all. When she mentioned the gay meetings it sort of felt like she was hanging on the past and the 'old me'. I said: 'well, I'll go with you whereever you want, but please don't think I will be joining you because I see myself or expect others to see me as gay because it won't happen and it most defenately is not what I want'. I think that was more or less an eye-opener for her and I could tell that it made her a bit sad. It wasn't my intention at all to make her sad of course, I just want her to be aware of what has changed the past years and where I am heading. Frankly, I don't want to go to these gay meetings at all, but if she wants me to go with her, I'll do it. Anyway, this was the second time yesterday that I thought 'you are totally not getting me and this is totally about you having problems adjusting'.

But really, what goes on in the minds of these people? Why would they even think that I wouldn't prefer to be called she/her? Is it not just common sense to assume that I want that and need that and that male pronouns are just painful for me? They've been hearing everyone else (strangers) calling me she for 1,5 year now. How long do they intend to wait? Do they think that they need me to have a vagina first? Well, that's just not how it works I think.

This is a friend I don't wanna lose so I think I'll try to discuss it further with her later, but I just don't know what to explain about something that should make total sense in the first place? Does anybody have some advise about what to say to her to make her understand more? Are there things I can say or do that will adjust her image of me without making her feel that our past is gone?

Hi Riannah


some people don't understand because they don't want to.
I had the same thing years ago with my family and friends and like you said it's embarresing.
I've told them a few times that they have to get use to me in the way I am or I should avoid them.
well, the end of the story was that they found I was insulting them by that and they avoid me.
for a long time they don't want to see me except my little sister.
so there were some lonely times but after some time they still want to see me, in that time I was just a few days before srs.
well i persist to call me by the right gender or there won't be any contact.
I won.
so what i'm trying to say is that sometimes you have to force people a little and a good friend has to understands your needs.
I'll hope your friend is getting the message you've gave her.


hugs
annette

The pronoun usage of others tells you more about how they see you than anything else. If they call you 'he' despite others calling you she, that tells you that they truly consider you to be male and do not accept you as female. Until they make that mental switch and see you as female, they're going to really struggle.
For example, the old guy who sat in the desk next to me at my old workplace kept calling me 'son' and referring to me as a 'gentleman' - and this was a guy who had never seen me pre-transition, but knew that I was trans.
In your case, I would refuse to associate with this person if they can't get the pronouns right. Perhaps say to them "I can't handle being around you when you refer to me as male. A true friend would be able to do this for me. If you can't, then I don't want to be around you."

I don't know if this will help but I had this problem with a few people and I solved it in what may seem to be a rude way but it did get my message across. one of them was a friend I call my sister for an entire day while I was around her any time I talked about her I used male pronouns, no matter how many times she corrected me I continued then when she got to the point where she was toatally frusterated I told her that if she would stop so would I! after that if she did slip I would too and it got the point across right away! hope this helps!

There are so many ridiculous conversations I've had concerning the pronoun thing...

  The worst was with a new friend, someone who never knew me before transition. She had married my cousin and close friend.  I went to their house for dinner one evening and she kept referring to me as "he/him." What complicated things is that my cousin was still getting used to the new pronouns; Although he was trying, he would frequently slip.
  About halfway through the evening I started to get angry and decided to mention it; I tried not to be adversarial and focused on how much it hurt. She acted surprised that I mentioned it; When my cousin came to my defense she got irritated and stated, "Well I'm sorry... I can't, in good conscience, call Jess "she" when he hasn't had the operation... He still has a c**k, for Christ's sake!"
Some people just won't get it... It's not that they can't, it's that they won't.
   I found that there are two types of pronoun offenders... There are those that are doing their best to understand and adapt to the "new you," and there are those that feel so strongly against Transsexualism that they refuse to change. Family and friends are tough! It's been two years of my living full time and my Mom still slips often but I know she's trying. It's sad to say but the ones who "won't" get it just aren't worth the pain of being around.

Quote from: JessicaR on December 27, 2010, 10:18:12 PM
...and there are those that feel so strongly against Transsexualism that they refuse to change.

I had this issue when I went along to the local Roller Derby meet and greet for newbies. One woman was totally cool with me and using the correct pronouns, then the organiser let it slip that I was trans and this bitch started calling me 'he' and a 'woman-man'.

Quote from: Vexing on December 27, 2010, 08:52:07 PM
The pronoun usage of others tells you more about how they see you than anything else. If they call you 'he' despite others calling you she, that tells you that they truly consider you to be male and do not accept you as female.

That's the impression I get yes and it's exactly why it is bothering me so much. The part that I can't stand is that they don't tell me that they consider me to be male but that instead they make me feel like I have gone mental by considering myself to be female and by thinking that there are others who consider me to be female. In the mean time it makes communication with them almost impossible because they think they are talking to and interacting with a male when they really are not.

I'm glad that I realise that the people that I meet for the first time do actually seem to consider me to be female. If I wouldn't have realised that then I think my family and friends would have caused me some SERIOUS self esteem issues. I guess this really is about their problem/struggle to accept me as female. Which doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to help them with that if I could. If I would mention this to them they would probable think I've gone even more mental, because after all I am the one having gender issues and I am the one who needs help. They don't see how well things are actually going for me and that it's really only them who are causing me problems.

I can't force them to see me as female, nore do I want to do that. What's not there is just not there. Using the wrong pronouns to them may result in them using the right pronouns to me, but will it actually make them see me as female? I think not. The problem would not be solved. Right pronouns are great, but there's a lot more attached to pronouns than just the words. Being considered as female by someone effects the way I feel, the way I behave, the way I move, the way I smile, the way I speak, the things I say, the things I don't say, etc.

After reading some of the responses here I think that it may just take lots of time for them to change their view on me and for some it may just never happen.

It's still hard for me to understand how intelligent people just don't get that when a person transitions this person actually already is of the gender that he/she is transitioning into, and that most of them seem to need the 'proof' of srs when they will never ever actually see the results of it in the first place.

Of course, sometimes it's sheer laziness; they can't be bothered making the adjustment to call you female pronouns.
In some ways, that's even worse.

I am in a similar situation, people that have known the old me, they still use male pronouns despite my adamant plea for them to use female pronouns.  Change is not easy for some people.  Just use some loving gentle words to express your concerns.  Friends are the hardest ones to convince, and since you use to hang out as friends, I can only tell you that she is having a hard time adjusting.  Be patient with her.