Quote from: Randi on December 22, 2010, 11:01:42 PM
We all have to deal with this in the way that is best for us. It is not the same for everybody and we really should try to be more tolerant of one anothers differences without trying to force our wants upon others who struggle from time to time too, (edited because I don't want to be offensive)
Interalia-I get what you said and relate totally. I appreciate your point of view and have learned a great deal from your previous posts-Thanks.

Randi

Thank you, Randi!  I'm glad you've benefited from something I've said.

Quote from: spacial on December 22, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
naimh

Didn't you use to have a rather nice avitar photo?

Apologies if i'm confusing you with someone else.

No, you're right, I did. I took it down two days ago because I got tired of looking at it. The more I saw it the more I saw how male I looked in it. It's time for a new picture...maybe sometime in the new year.

And thanks for saying that it was nice. 

Quote from: niamh on December 23, 2010, 01:39:02 AM
No, you're right, I did. I took it down two days ago because I got tired of looking at it. The more I saw it the more I saw how male I looked in it. It's time for a new picture...maybe sometime in the new year.

And thanks for saying that it was nice. 

You most certainly didn't look male!!

But looking forward to another.

Quote from: niamh on October 09, 2010, 12:12:17 PM
The reason I am not transitioning despite wanting to is that I have a loving partner who accepts me totally for the woman I am and is willing to stand by my side in tick and thin. She doesn't care what body parts I have or what gender presentation I give out and someone like that is few and far between. She's a real keeper. The reason she understands me so well is that she is a little gender-queer herself and has herself gone through the whole 'finding yourself phase' as regards gender and sexuality. She's identified at various times of her life as ftm, lesbian, tomboy, androgyne so she knows better than anyone else around me how it feels to be me, a woman presenting as a man.

I hate to say this but I feel a slight logical inconsistency here - yes I understand you want children but sometimes in life we have to make compromises. I would like to be a published author, but I am recently coming to the conclusion that it probably wont happen and that I will almost certainly have to go back to doing something more normal - At least I have given it a good try.

In your shoes I would be looking towards immediate transition, surgery, and adoption later on.

Interalia talks about triggers and coping mechanisms which I personally find both interesting and yet also impractical, because the idea of triggers seems to imply that there are times for him when the dysphoria was/is not present. For me, and I suspect many others, there simply never were. To be alive was to be constantly dysphoric. Some aspects of it were partially relieved by transition, but others actually got a million times worse during the process.

The feelings only really fully changed when I finally awoke from surgery. So I am genuinely curious as to what it might have been like to have had such an intermittent quality to ones dysphoria. I suppose if you have an intermittent quality to the feelings then it might be possible to struggle on, but if not then I suggest that accepting the inevitable and finding a compromise solution will be a better option than driving yourself to some form of breakdown on the altar of these much longed for children.

Fate can be cruel like this and when you hope so much for something, and sacrifice so much to gain it, sometime fate has a nasty habit of finding a way to bitterly disappoint one. I hope and pray that this may not be your experience.

Quote from: rejennyrated on December 25, 2010, 04:02:56 AM
The feelings only really fully changed when I finally awoke from surgery. So I am genuinely curious as to what it might have been like to have had such an intermittent quality to ones dysphoria. I suppose if you have an intermittent quality to the feelings then it might be possible to struggle on, but if not then I suggest that accepting the inevitable and finding a compromise solution will be a better option than driving yourself to some form of breakdown on the altar of these much longed for children.

This struck me today when I was walking down the beach in my bikini for the first time ever. I'd always imagined that it would be an amazing moment and that I would feel immense euphoria and elation at being able to do this.
But instead it just felt normal.
Sure I was happy, but it was an ordinary happiness; a happiness that came from it being a warm Xmas day at the beach after a lovely Xmas lunch with my fiancé and his family.
I started to feel a little disappointed, then I realised that this is what I'd been seeking, that this is what I wanted from my transition.
To feel normal.
To not feel like a freak. To not hate my body. To not yearn to be somebody else.
That's why I transitioned. That's why I had surgery; not because it would feel great, but because it would stop me feeling like crap.

Thanks for that Jenny. Maybe you are right and I'd be better transitioning right now and adopting later. Maybe not. I don't think, however, that there is a one-size-fits-all as regards our paths to being who we are. Right now what I have decided and we are going to make a go of it. In life, as you said yourself, some times even the best of plans have problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to all decisions but I think the way I am going about it is the right decision for me and the positives outweight the negatives. I plan to start social and physical transitions as soon asthe kids have been born so that's not that far off. I am wait and busy myself with the other aspects of life that are important: education, career. There are plently of nights after to get glammed up and go partying!

Quote from: Vexing on December 25, 2010, 04:19:40 AM
I started to feel a little disappointed, then I realised that this is what I'd been seeking, that this is what I wanted from my transition.
To feel normal.
To not feel like a freak. To not hate my body. To not yearn to be somebody else.
That's why I transitioned. That's why I had surgery; not because it would feel great, but because it would stop me feeling like crap.

That's how I want it to be. I have come to understand that my life will not suddenly become all rosy and great after transition. It is no easier to be a woman than it is a man, all other things being equal. It's simply that I feel like a woman so I know I will be happier in society as one. That said, of course I will still have the difficulties of children, work, paying the bills, bad hair days...But I can do it with a smile and a litle bit more ease and confidence knowing that I am seen as a woman.

I think that believing that the green is always greener on the other side is a major reason why some people come to regret transition. Like with going on holidays, you have to drag yourself along there too. If you are miserable at home it's not all going to suddenly change on holidays.

Hi Niamh!
I made a vlog about this topic recently. I had a whole text written out in response and then I was like "Hey! Why don't I just post the video!" Basically, I think love and support from our community and loved ones is how you cope. It doesn't help people too much when they are made to feel like less or somehow other than everyone else. I think many times people who don't transition need more love and acceptance from our community, especially from people who have transitioned. It really isn't easy not transitioning judging from the people I've talked to. Our own journey to transition (for whatever reason) is not interwoven into other peoples' reason to transition.

I'm transitioned. My life is separate from yours but I can love you and support you, like I would anyone else who needs it, in whatever you do. So take a look, big hugs and do what you have to do to lay a foundation for happiness in your life, k? Don't ever, ever let anyone from here or anywhere else tell you what you should do, do what you have to do and feel confident in your decisions. No one else has walked in your shoes Meghan

Here's the video:

Thanks for your support Meghan!

Z

As someone who is also relatively non-op I find it interesting that so many transitioned people find the need to tell those of us that we "have logical inconsistencies" or that while describing our feelings we are somehow talking "smack" about you.  I almost get the feeling that those people have a bit of unfinished self acceptance over their own choices.  I don't have any problem, in any way with the informed decision, after proper introspection, of someone to completely transition.  I certainly hope that it is successful.  My own personal analysis for myself, and my wife, is that it simply isn't appropriate at this time.  If the collapse of 2008 had not occurred, then it might be, as we would have enough to retire or at least be able to fill the gap with side work.  I find it very interesting to hear others' stories of how they cope, and think that this is an important sub-board for that.  Now I could see how these views might be a little threatening to someone planning  transition, threatening the united world view of "transition or Die!"  But why are so many post-ops seemingly having problems?  I don't think that I have read one non-op that was outwardly directing any negativity toward post-ops, but rather presenting inwardly felt fears, concerns, coping mechanisms, deal breaking family/job situations etc. etc. Poverty, loneliness, family isolation, loss of children are real, possible outcomes from transition.  Sometimes they are probable, foreseeable results.  The fact that one is unsure or refusing of surgery doesn't negate their transsexual nature.  It only means that they are non-op for some reason.

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on December 25, 2010, 02:01:47 PM
But why are so many post-ops seemingly having problems?

Oh? What kind of problems?

Quote from: Vexing on December 25, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
Oh? What kind of problems?

From reading posts over the past months, it seems like many, though certainly not all, post-op girls can feel unfulfilled, listless and more than a little lost once they've had surgery. There are obviously many reasons why this can be the case, but I think a core one is when people start thinking along the lines of "My life begins once I've had SRS" which to me is as poisonous a way of thinking as wallowing in what if. Yeah, you need to make goals and plans (surgery definitely isn't cheap) but if you focus solely on getting surgery and being post op and forget to live and enjoy you're life in the present, you will inevitably be disappointed when you get there.

By the sounds of things you did exactly that, enjoyed the life you had while working steadily towards the end goal of SRS but without focusing on it to the detriment of all else and as a result you just feel normal, not disappointed or unfulfilled. I'm hoping I can manage the same trick.

Quote from: Helena on December 28, 2010, 06:53:26 AM
From reading posts over the past months, it seems like many, though certainly not all, post-op girls can feel unfulfilled, listless and more than a little lost once they've had surgery.

I haven't read these posts, the ones I have read about post op life have been largely positive.

I still think Helena makes a valid point though.  Even your post admits that some people do in fact put too much emphasis on being post-op to the exclusion of everything else along the way.  I think there are an equal number of people that fear surgery for the fact that it is irreversable and if they have any doubts about their course, its just going to exploit those weaknesses.

Quote from: niamh on October 09, 2010, 12:12:17 PM
I guess this is as good a place for this question as any. My question is: how does on cope with not transitioning despite badly wanting to?

I have told details about my situation before in other parts of this great website but seeing as I am still a newbie here I thought I would briefly give them here now. The reason I am not transitioning despite wanting to is that I have a loving partner who accepts me totally for the woman I am and is willing to stand by my side in tick and thin. She doesn't care what body parts I have or what gender presentation I give out and someone like that is few and far between. She's a real keeper. The reason she understands me so well is that she is a little gender-queer herself and has herself gone through the whole 'finding yourself phase' as regards gender and sexuality. She's identified at various times of her life as ftm, lesbian, tomboy, androgyne so she knows better than anyone else around me how it feels to be me, a woman presenting as a man.

However, it would be unfair to take all this support she gives me and not give something back in return. We both want kids and the best way to get them is to do it the old fashioned way. So I wait until the time is right to have kids and when they have come I can finally start popping those pink pills.

When I was 19 and came out to my folks as trans I was sure that I would be living as a woman by my mid-twenties. I mean, for a 19 year old, half a decade is a loooong time. However, it's true what they say, life never works out exactly as you think it would. I found the love of my life but it came at the cost of post-poning my transition.

I read about all the men and women who are getting on with their transitions and the rest of their life and I am so happy for them and I'd like nothing more than to join them but I can't right now and it makes me a little sad. (Actually, it makes me a great lot sad.) Of course, I am so grateful that I have found someone so loving and accepting. It's just that I'd love to have it all. I know, I am being greedy.

So, is there anyone here that intends to transition but can't right now despite wanting to? How do you cope with the every day? I would love suggestions and advice because it's getting to a point where I am being driven up the wall.

Coming late to the dance, I won't try reading all the posts.  I'll just focus on this one.

It's not uncommon for the need to transition to become stronger as you age.  That's something to consider when you give your life to someone else at some point in your life.  We all change as we age and our perspectives, our values and our needs change along with us.  So, if you're young, 20 years down the road you may find yourself so miserable you decide to transition regardless of the consequences.  Then you have a lot of people who have become accustomed to you giving in to their needs becoming very upset with you for deciding to no longer do that.  It happens.  A lot.

As far as children, Dr. Christine McGinn (GRS surgeon) froze her sperm before transitioning.  She is now a mother of twins.  And her partner is the birth mother.  You don't have to have intercourse to be a parent.

You say you want to give something back to your wife for loving you the way she does.  Does she feel she has to give you something for your love?  Love isn't a quid pro quo arrangement.  If you love someone, you love them.  They shouldn't be expected to give you something back.  However, you say your partner loves you for who you are.  Isn't who you are a woman? 

No matter what, you'll never really know unless you ask.  Your post above sounds like you are assuming a lot.

Quote from: regan on December 30, 2010, 09:22:38 AM
I still think Helena makes a valid point though.  Even your post admits that some people do in fact put too much emphasis on being post-op to the exclusion of everything else along the way.  I think there are an equal number of people that fear surgery for the fact that it is irreversable and if they have any doubts about their course, its just going to exploit those weaknesses.

My issue was with the use of 'so many' - implying that post-surgery regrets/problems are extremely common.

I thought the point of this one, little thread was for non ops to have a safe environment and discuss coping mechanisms.  Perhaps there isn't much call for it.  It seems though that when people post looking specifically for that type of advice, mutual experience etc., they get told that the problem is that they have chosen to be non op.  I think that Niamh came to this board as a non op and has already made HER informed choice.  Evidently, she sees some benefit to non transition, something so powerful that she is willing to sacrifice some part of her happiness for that perceived thing.  That sounds like something only she can decide.  She isn't (though maybe I'm wrong) looking to question her decision, only how to implement it.  Many are willing to sacrifice everything for transition, and that's fine.  It is their choice.  Some of us are not willing to do that, at least at this time.  When someone who is post op questions that decision, I have to wonder if they are actually in need of affirmation of THEIR choice. Not that I think they regret it, but perhaps they get  a bit of nagging doubt from the problems transition can bring.   I am a bit confused re: Julie Marie vrs Julikins, but hasn't one of you posted on more than a few occasions concerning "ex wife from hell" loss of job, etc.etc.? I do not wish to go through that at this stage of my life.  Balancing on a tightrope between those types of problems and finding exactly what I need, at this point in my life, to fulfill my trans nature, is my search, my struggle, my choice.   

As one of the non-ops, I wouldn't take an expresion from a post op, of any sort of criticism, seriously. I'm sure there are many reasons someone might say such a thing, but each of us must take this journey our own way.

I am very pleased, not to say proud of those that have and are going to achieve their full transision. But each of us is making a difference. My personal feeling is that, if we can ensure the children of today don't have to put up with as much nosense as some of us did, then we have done well.

And I really think we have.

Thanks very much to everyone for their replies. Sorry that I won't be able to reply to people individually. Unfortunately my laptop broke so I have to borrow from a friend to get online etc.

I find that I inhabit a world between non-transition and transition, in that if I had kids I would start tomorrow and the only thing holding me back is them. It won't be long before we plan to have them needless to say (as much as you can plan these things) and then I can start with getting to a doctor for HRT, social transition etc.

I am willing to wait so we will have kids in the future (without having to resort to freezing sperm, IVF, adoption etc.).

What I was asking about was coping mechanisms to hold me over until then (c. 3 years) and I think that this thread gave me some support and ideas in that direction.

I think everyone has to find their way. I believe that I am doing that, probably a little shakely but I seem to be coping well enough. I know I can hold on these just few more years so I can have kids with my partner.

Contrary to what some said, I am not planning to wait 20 something years. These kids will know only two mothers as they will be too young when I am transitioning to remember anyway else. At least that is the plan. I know plans doesn't always go exactly as hoped but fingers crossed that's the way it will work.

Quote from: Vexing on December 30, 2010, 12:29:49 PM
My issue was with the use of 'so many' - implying that post-surgery regrets/problems are extremely common.

I think its near impossible to quote an accurate number.  Not that I disagree with you.  No matter how you look at it, it is a major life altering decision and one of the few completely irreversable things about full transition.  To say that there ar,e no fears going into, or regret following it I think is largely unrealistic.  I think, mostly due to the "gatekeeper" stance still in play by the medical community we are conditioned not to talk about our fears or in the case of post-op, regrets.  Therefore you can't say with any accuracy what the outcomes are.  I don't know that we'll ever overcome that...

regan

Your point is well made. If somewhat difficult to disprove.

However, someone who transisions, but remains pre-op, for a time at least, has already made a life changing decision. In that, though they might revert, their relationships will be forever changed.

For that matter, similar things can be said about most of what we do. Having a baby for example.

In the case of someone having surgery, then changing their minds, the worst they will have to put up with is life long sterility.

The value of fertility is, I suggest, subjective.