Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 01, 2011, 02:46:11 AM
I often think about leaving

I love seeing your posts. I would hope you don't. You seem like an awesome person to talk to.

While I do not know who left Susans or the context of that discussion, I think that some people who are overly sensitive may be in a bad situation about which we do not have sufficient information. Yes, the world is cruel and we need a certain amount of mental fortitude to survive, but sometimes some overly sensitive individuals reach out to a supportive group for the box of sugar and kittens. There are periods of adversity that some people go through during which support matters more than a dose of reality. Someone I know from a local crossdressers group attempted suicide after being rejected by family, losing her job, getting ridiculed by society, etc all on account of her gender transition, and finally getting a dose of someone else's reality at a website which was supposed to be a crossdressers support forum. It took a lot of people to support her thereafter, but she seems to be living a healthy life now. So let us be kind to people. We do not know what else they are dealing with in their lives.

Once again, I do not know about who is the specific person we are talking about who quit Susans, but we should not make someone already feeling helpless more desperate as a result of our comments.

Quote from: marissak on January 01, 2011, 04:43:34 AM
While I do not know who left Susans or the context of that discussion, I think that some people who are overly sensitive may be in a bad situation about which we do not have sufficient information. Yes, the world is cruel and we need a certain amount of mental fortitude to survive, but sometimes some overly sensitive individuals reach out to a supportive group for the box of sugar and kittens. There are periods of adversity that some people go through during which support matters more than a dose of reality. Someone I know from a local crossdressers group attempted suicide after being rejected by family, losing her job, getting ridiculed by society, etc all on account of her gender transition, and finally getting a dose of someone else's reality at a website which was supposed to be a crossdressers support forum. It took a lot of people to support her thereafter, but she seems to be living a healthy life now. So let us be kind to people. We do not know what else they are dealing with in their lives.

Once again, I do not know about who is the specific person we are talking about who quit Susans, but we should not make someone already feeling helpless more desperate as a result of our comments.

No one quit Susans. Read the damn thread.
See, the problem that I have is that when people pull the desperation act, most of the time they are crying 'wolf!'. Have you ever read 'The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf''? Like the villagers in the story, people get irate at being used for someone else's attention trip. After it's happened too many times, people start Not Caring when it happens and can't muster the energy to do anything about it - and they get really good at spotting those who are just crying 'wolf!' for attention and those who are For Real.

Quote from: Vexing on January 01, 2011, 04:51:15 AM
Read the damn thread.

Lol.    Precisely the masculine attitude which the person who attempted suicide described to me. Tone it down a bit please or you might end up hurting someone.

I was describing a general principle/practice of being kind to people. Please read without prejudice.

Quote from: marissak on January 01, 2011, 04:55:22 AM
Lol.    Precisely the masculine attitude which the person who attempted suicide described to me. Tone it down a bit please or you might end up hurting someone.

What?

  Right cool it both of you!

@Marissak you have a point, but I'm sure you are aware that calling most MtF's masculine would be felt by them to be a bit insulting or threatening to their identity so it is best avoided.

@Vexing - you have a point, that was rather a cruel way for Marissak to say something - but the serious point which you do need to take on board, is that some people on this site are fragile and can't handle the brutal honesty that you and I hopefully can.

@both On this occasion I am not handing out any warnings - but no further retaliation or insults will be permitted.  Talk respectfully or not at all.

As usual i seem to have missed all the interesting things that have been happening. Who's going? who's staying? Mods i think you do a brilliant job 99.9% of the time, and i think on a forum like this where most of us are wearing some kind of emotion on our sleeve or are all hyper sensitive to a particular subject or idea people are not always going to hear what they want in response to their posts. Hell , i'd love for someone to tell me i'm smooth suave and sophisticated but i'm still waiting  . Love you all tho.

Al, you are smooth, suave, and sophisticated and a totally awesome guy.

Thank you Andrew- now to print that out to show the rest of the world!

A good piece of advice I keep doling out (and had to learn the hard way too, mind you) is that when someone on the internet hurts your feelings, don't reply/"react" while still upset... take 5 minutes away from the computer if you have to.
Take the time to calm down and then re-read. If it's definitely an aggressive/insulting post, then report it and/or respond calmly. If not, then respond calmly.

Quote from: Miniar on January 01, 2011, 04:58:34 PM
A good piece of advice I keep doling out (and had to learn the hard way too, mind you) is that when someone on the internet hurts your feelings, don't reply/"react" while still upset... take 5 minutes away from the computer if you have to.

I have my version of this, only it's twenty-four hours.

I actually feel that silence is the most hurtful response- at least if people are answering a post ive made then i can engage with them

I havent read the thread in question and dont know what was said.

But I do get the impression that there are some people on this board who expect to be told that:

everything is easy
you will pass with no problems
everyone will be totally accepting

and they do not particularly like it when it is pointed out that this is not generally the case.

There are also people who come here still and still think being trans is a lifestyle choice... It just stuns me that these people think that transitioning and being operated on is just something they should do because they 'feel like it'

I do think we should try to be nice to people here but we do need to point out the error of their ways.

You mean i won't pass easy? Darn, i thought this press up look had so much going for it

Quote from: Catherine on January 01, 2011, 05:38:25 PMThere are also people who come here still and still think being trans is a lifestyle choice... It just stuns me that these people think that transitioning and being operated on is just something they should do because they 'feel like it'

How do you know that, for them, it ISN'T this way?

Quote from: Arch on January 01, 2011, 05:22:57 PM
I have my version of this, only it's twenty-four hours.

Sometimes I'm away for an hour, taking out my frustration on the dirty dishes. The kitchen's never so clean as after I've been made proper angry.

Quote from: Arch on January 01, 2011, 05:59:44 PM
How do you know that, for them, it ISN'T this way?

Because they come across in their posts as someone who has this idea that they should be a girl.. Not that they are a girl.

I dont believe that being Trans is an idea or a whim. It is what you are, it your whole being.

Maybe I am wrong for some people but I don't think I am for most of us.

Quote from: Catherine on January 01, 2011, 05:38:25 PM
But I do get the impression that there are some people on this board who expect to be told that:

everything is easy
you will pass with no problems
everyone will be totally accepting

and they do not particularly like it when it is pointed out that this is not generally the case.

Absolutely. We encounter people like this everywhere, not just on a trans support site.

But there's a big difference between telling such a person, "Yeah, right. Face reality. You're not gonna be able to get a job as a third-grade teacher, so suck it up" and "I hate to say this, but I don't think you're being realistic about your career prospects. If you read recent news articles, you'll find that parents and administrators do not tend to deal gracefully or fairly with trans teachers."

Or whatever.

I've seen what happens when my colleagues are too frank with college students. The students shut down and never come back for help again. I tell my students the truth about their abilities and prospects, but I neither sugar-coat it nor state it so baldly that I hurt their feelings. They tell me that they appreciate my honesty AND my support, and they keep coming back for help.

Crafting a thoughtful post that is polite AND honest doesn't take all that much more effort, and there's a much lower risk that you'll alienate people so much that they fixate only on how you said something and pay no attention to what you actually said.

Quote from: Miniar on January 01, 2011, 06:02:37 PM
Sometimes I'm away for an hour, taking out my frustration on the dirty dishes. The kitchen's never so clean as after I've been made proper angry.

Rats. I'd invite you over and enrage you, but I just washed my dishes yesterday.

When I was a teenager I thought that it was a choice. Either follow my feelings, get completely rejected, ruin any chance of a career, normal relationship/family, probably end up in sex work miserable and alone or suck it up, try to be a man and make a go of my life. It took a lot of miserable painful lessons to teach me that it wasn't a choice, that I was in fact female and that transition was my ONLY hope for any kind of life.

But I didn't know it then and I'm sure that many other people have made/are making the same mistakes that I did and I think that a little understanding and letting people know that they are not a freak and they are not alone should be a priority when talking to new people rather than instant armchair diagnosis.

When dishing out the brutal truth, I think that you should always check your motives, whether you are just being truthful or just being brutal.