Hey guys, I wasn't really sure where to place this, but this forum seemed like the best place where I could get some answers.

I was in a self help group over the summer with a couple of my friends, and was sort of out as transgender there (I made sure my friends didn't know, but the guys I knew there did...that sort of thing).

What happened was that they divided the entire group into men and women by birth sex. Previously, I had been very comfortable because I had made friends with a lot of the guys there who were very accepting and treated me like one of them.

Of course, being born a girl meant I was to go in the girl group, no matter what gender I was. I would have made a huge fuss if my friends hadn't been there (they don't know that I'm trans, and I don't know what would happen if they did). I thought I could survive it, and lasted up until they separated into even smaller groups to talk about their feelings/hopes/dreams and such.

I had a full blown panic attack and literally ran/stumbled out of the room because I could not comprehend what they were saying. I didn't fit in at all, and I had nothing to say to them.

Thankfully, a girl there also suffered from panic attacks, and so she knew what to do. I was a wreck, and told her that I was transgender and that I wanted to be in the men's group. She listened and just sat next to me, attempting to calm me down. 

She made it to where I was able to calm down before the adults in charge came to pick the entire women's group up.

Would this be considered a type of gender dysphoria? It's never been this bad before, although I've always been the odd person out in every single women's group that I've been in.

The reason why I'm asking is because I've always heard gender dysphoria connected to the actual body, which I do have a bit of (chest...urgh), but not with situations.

I'd say it could be a symptom of gender dysphoria. I was very uncomfortable around groups of females before transition. Now, not so much. Probably because I'm not expected to be one of them and they're much more tolerant of me.

But it could also be being separated from your friends  and forced to sit with strangers or something. Do you have a history of panic attacks?

Quote from: Forum Admin on January 01, 2011, 03:46:49 PM
I'd say it could be a symptom of gender dysphoria. I was very uncomfortable around groups of females before transition. Now, not so much. Probably because I'm not expected to be one of them and they're much more tolerant of me.

But it could also be being separated from your friends  and forced to sit with strangers or something. Do you have a history of panic attacks?

I didn't actually develop full-out panic attacks until this year, but I've always pretty much been the shy, nervous, extremely quiet person in the back of the room unless I was being considered as a boy by everyone around me, honestly.

And, also honestly, I'm not that much real friends with a lot of people - I guess I should have used the words "acquaintances". I suppose it could have been the separation, though, although, with the previous groups that we had been forced into that there were guys in I wasn't that nervous.

my dysphoria's always been about how people percieve me. My body doesn't really bother me huge amounts, or who I am in comparison to a lot of you guys. My main worries has always been being percieved as female vs male, and having to partake in female tyoe activities and whatnot. Freaks me out. I'm a male and damnit I'm going to do manly things.

Quote from: Kvall on January 01, 2011, 07:46:59 PM
Yeah, dysphoria is not always just from the body. It can be social as well.

I'm a little confused about what you wrote happened, though. They really said "break up into groups based on your birth sex"? I'm guessing they really just said to divide up into men and women and you got washed away with the women. When you're very early in transition and haven't began living full-time as your real gender, it sometimes feels like you have to keep following the gender role you've been forced into when encountering situations like this, whether because of internalized social pressures or because you're not out to certain people (like your female friends in this case). Once you start the full social transition, it'll gradually be easier to simply go with the guys in such situations.

Yea, that's what they did. I felt uncomfortable asking if they were referring to gender or sex, so I assumed that they meant sex.

I think it's a fair mix of both, since I'm not out to my family, but I feel very pressured to be a girl. I'm glad it'll get easier to go along with my real gender as I start to transition.

I'm glad to know that gender dysphoria not only revolves around the body, because that's been one of my major worries since I'm not too focused on my body besides certain parts of it. I guess I just experience the more social version of it with hating being pushed into women's activities (such as a women's only knitting club) and hating to be pushed to dress more femininely.

I'd to love to hear from more people, if you guys want to share your stories.

It sounds like gender dysphoria to me. Although though you didn't ask this part: As to whether it is trans related specifically? In my case with things like that it was trans related and related to just discomfort in general.

What I mean is that I was lucky enough to pass very often as far back as 9th grade but I wasn't out to anyone then so while the students expected me to be with the guys the teachers expected me to be with the girls. So in gym class when the girls and guys were split I was uncomfortable being with the girls because it created dysphoria but also because it led to many girls, guys, and sometimes even the teachers laughing at me for being stuck with the girls. Since I came out though I belong with the guys and am very quick to correct anyone who thinks otherwise no matter if the people around me know or not. Like Kvall says it does get easier. Slowly when you begin to pass entirely (if you don't already) and when you gain that confidence it suddenly seems weird when you aren't grouped as a guy.

Sometimes I get myself so far into the mindset of being male that I forget for a minute that I'm trans and get confused when someone says otherwise.

Quote from: Kvall on January 01, 2011, 10:27:41 PM
Chances are, they had no inkling of transgender issues or the idea that someone might feel put at odds between the two. Once you've come out and begun social transition you needn't worry about which people mean; you're a man and can go with the men. If someone did explicitly mean the sex you were assigned at birth then they're intentionally being transphobic.

(And personally I consider both my sex and gender male, and what I was incorrectly and coercively assigned at birth is completely irrelevant. How you negotiate your understanding of your own sex/gender is up to you, of course--just wanted to give a different perspective. )

I don't think they were being intentionally transphobic. I just like to think they didn't have a clue about what they were saying.

Thanks for your perspective, I've never thought about sex like that before. ^^::

I just consider my sex female because that's how it happened to happen. It's wrong, but I can't consider myself sex-wise male until I actually get started on my transition. I know I'm a guy on the inside gender-wise and intend to transition, though, so that doesn't bother me that much. It's just my opinion, though.

@ Andrew Scott - Yes, I believe it was Trans-related in my case as well because my panicky thoughts revolved around wanting to be with the guys and not getting the girls at all, etc. I've had crowding panic attacks before, and so I'm able to differentiate the causes pretty easily nowadays.

I was also forcibly grouped with the girls in sports despite my like for the guys' team, so I sympathize. Unfortunately, I'm unlucky in the fact that I don't pass very well- I'm a very girly-looking guy.