ALL but absolutely ALL men I TRUELY loved dumped me as soon as they knew I was a transsexual(pre-op), it was even worse when I was still a guy, no men would even look at me. Do you know ANY mtf or any real story as such where a mtf had operated, change all legal papers and got married and the straight man husband never came to know? Many say that if the person truely loves you they'll accept you as you are but my case is becoming narrow now and there's NO ONE but really NO ONE who accepted me as I am for LOVE & MARRIAGE AND ME I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER, I'm EXHAUSTED and thirsty of love. Infinite there are for sex and casual but NO ONE WOULD WANNA INVEST in a person who can't bare a child.

Do you know any mtf who MARRIED but NEVER REVEALED she was male before?

yes but she got outed and her husband filed for divorce

One thing I do know is, if you sell yourself short, you'll get short back.

It sounds so like a cliche, but when someone really loves you, it just doesn't matter.

You are what you are, past included. Be up front and honest if a relationship seems to be getting serious.

There is someone out there. You just need to wait till you both bump into each other.

I know that many will say, those sort of people are very rare. Yes, they are. In fact, out of the billions in the world there is only one.

You have to believe that.

Short answer NO. Longer answer - but I know plenty who are happily married anyway.

Most normal decent men will NOT be interested when you are pre-op. There may be exceptions but mostly only fetishists will want someone who is in transition - which isn't a basis for a good relationship.

(EDIT - and because I have four times now had to clarify this point let me point out that I have not been preop since the early 1980's. I rather gather from the four separate replies that things may have moved on now but back then that statement was a fair summary of the attitude prevailing. So please no more telling me that I am being unfair. I can only speak from my own experience which as I have now said to Jocelyn, Jennx, slanan, and VanOcc I accept may be out of date! Besides the above was really merely intended as a side observation - my main point is below...)

Once postop although some men will not be able to cope with it - plenty will, so although you will undoubtedly get a few who turn you down there will be enough who can deal with it to mean that you can be successful.

The important thing is to be up-front before things get too intimate. To do otherwise is dishonest, dangerous and basically means that you don't fully trust your partner, which to me is a totally rubbish way to start a relationship. Sure some people make the choice not to reveal but and awful lot do get outted eventually, and when they do a lot of them end up injured or dead.

I also feel that I would not want to end up in a relationship with a bigot - so if they cant handle transpeople then I wouldn't want them making love to me however attractive they are.

I personally strongly believe that those who choose to withhold this information are very foolish, delusional, and richly deserve the instant dumping that they will almost certainly get if they are found out. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever, but ultimately it is their choice.

Quote from: Sad Girl on January 02, 2011, 11:39:29 AMNO ONE WOULD WANNA INVEST in a person who can't bare a child.

That's just not true.
Men can't bare children, and there are women who can't get pregnant for any number of reasons, who have loving, long term, relationships.

Quote from: Sad GirlDo you know any mtf who MARRIED but NEVER REVEALED she was male before?

Not in person no.
But, I can't see how someone could do that.
I can see why someone might want to, but I can't see how someone could.

I think that the whole dating culture's become rather messed up when people are urged to hide parts of themselves and even go as far as pretend to try and get the other person to like them. It's not a comment on you, or on any of us specifically, but on the whole thing.
I see, on telly, shows where men are given advice as to what to wear, what to talk about, how to be, etc, in order to get the girl to like them, and women are given advice as to what to wear, what to talk about, how to be, etc, in order to get the guy to like them back. And the same shows tell men and women what to avoid, who to walk away from, almost unabashedly. Like black socks in sneakers means the person can't be a good partner for anyone at all. None of these shows press the simple fact that in order to find someone who likes us as we are, we have to present ourselves as we are!
If you present yourself as someone you are not, if you hide a part of who you are, then the love you get isn't for that part you hide, it isn't for "you", it's for the person you've presented.
If you tell someone you like hiking because they look like the hiking part, they might like you more for being a hiker, but if you're not a hiker it's not you they're liking, it's who you're pretending to be, which isn't you..

And yes, once transitioned, the past is the past, but this is "kind of" a big deal to a lot of people. Not because it really changes who you are, but because people are attached to a lot of nonsense notions. We hide this because we believe or know that people will freak out, which means we're deliberately trying to conceal some part of ourselves, something that's shaped our lives in the past and still is with us in some way.

You can be honest and find love. Proper love. For you. Not for "the person I have to pretend to be so that guys will like me", but for you, as who you are.
It can take a while, and you're sure to find some problems 'long the way. But you won't find it unless you are you.

Quote from: Sad Girl on January 02, 2011, 11:39:29 AM
Do you know any mtf who MARRIED but NEVER REVEALED she was male before?

I know two MTFs who are getting married and HAVE revealed that they were assigned the sex 'male' at birth.
I'm one of them.
My fiancé and I are also about to buy a house and start a family - via adoption.
It IS possible to find a guy who will love you despite being MTF and will still want to marry you if you can't bear children.
If you think that you have it bad, imagine what it's like for a severely disabled person to try and find love - or someone with a terminal illness and just wants to be loved before they die.

Ooo me mme me!    i dont know anygirls who is married to men and have not told them there tea(history). I been in the situation where i never told this guy about me and we dated for 2 years! It was sooo exausting!! After that relationship ive decided to just tell them truth...its a whole lot easier and safer. And it will save yourself time. Just think if you got into a serious relationship without telling a guy your history and being upfront and you dated....lets say 5 years...and finally someone outted you or you told him and he left you...thats a waste of 5 years you could have had to find the one that WILL ACCEPT you.

I'll speak as an S.O.  I'm so glad my wife told me about her past - it lets me support and love her in a way that I could not if she hadn't.  It also means that she doesn't have to always be "on alert" to keep me from finding out.  I already know - there's no risk to our relationship if someone uses the wrong pronoun or anything else.

Think about the things you'd have to hide.  Things like taking hormones (imagine being in a hospital recovering after a car wreck, when a doctor may slip up and say to the husband what the hormones are for or might not know to give you them - and neither does your husband!).  Things like an old utility deposit being returned to you 15 years later, or a creditor looking for your brother.  Things like property or public records (many of them are google-able).  What if your partner discovers your name change later (it may be public record)?

Of course I was identified correctly at birth as male, so I'm speaking from a position of privilege - and I recognize that.  I would never venture to tell someone to live their own life my way.  But I am very glad my wife told me.  I can love her better because of it.

Quote from: rejennyrated on January 02, 2011, 01:08:39 PM
Most normal decent men will NOT be interested when you are pre-op. There may be exceptions but mostly only fetishists will want someone who is in transition - which isn't a basis for a good relationship.

I don't think this is a fair statement. This may have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but things really are different now. The younger generation is far more open-minded about these kinds of things. I've dated lesbians that didn't like penises at all, and straight guys that also didn't like penises at all. But, we made it work because it really is just a stupid thing that doesn't matter. In fact, I've never once had my penis be a serious issue at all. Sure, it has kept me out of a few threesomes I would have wanted, but never out of any kind of meaningful emotional connection. I'm also generally only attracted to really open-minded people; people that are usually atheists that passionately support gay rights. I've always been almost exclusively physically attracted to females and been generally repulsed by the penis. However, I would have no problem spending the rest of my life with a male because I really just don't care what genitalia someone has. You can still find fun things to do regardless. There are plenty of other people out there with views just like me; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know where and how to look for them.

Quote from: Jocelyn on January 02, 2011, 09:23:03 PM
There are plenty of other people out there with views just like me; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know where and how to look for them.

Which makes them sound less plentiful than you are leading us to believe.
These people are not common; if they were, then trans people would have very few problems navigating the world in general.
Jenny's statement stands; you sign up an online dating profile stating that you're trans and let us know what the first question the majority of men ask is.
Hint: "Are you pre-op or post-op?"

Quote from: rejennyrated on January 02, 2011, 01:08:39 PM
Most normal decent men will NOT be interested when you are pre-op. There may be exceptions but mostly only fetishists will want someone who is in transition - which isn't a basis for a good relationship.

I really have to disagree with this one. I'm "pre-op" and I've dated several doctors, lawyers, fire fighters and other "normal decent men" that would 100% contradict this statement. And more than not, most didn't disappear after learning of my "status". I think it has more to do with picking "decent open-minded men" in the first place more than anything else.

I think you have to think of the other person and how THEY will perceive it. Most people wouldn't care if you had a mole before and so it's not necessary to disclose, if you even think or remember to.  I'd probably have forgotten all about it (the mole) and might not disclose because I just hadn't thought about it.  If you think the person would have a huge issue with it, then I think you should tell them.  It's really not fair not to.  He or she maybe be a bigot, but I think they have a right to be and should be given the choice to make their decisions based on the truth.

I had SRS in 1974 and married in 1976. My husband didn't know my medical history and I didn't tell him - I felt it was nobody's business and I had been cured of my birth defect so that was that. He found out after we separated and was mad that I hadn't trusted him enough to tell him - he felt it was "a big deal" and I didn't see it as so important.

I married again in 1980 only this time I told my husband when things got serious. He was not just understanding but very sympathetic to the pain I must have gone through as a child. It turned out to be a good move (telling him) because when my medical history was leaked by a clinic worker, my husband was my biggest defender.

Having gone both ways, which would I do in the future? I  would share the story of my childhood not because it should matter to me or him but because it matters to (some) other people and it would not be fair to him to leave him unprepared for the possible gossip. It is something I do share and it is something "straight guys" have a problem with because it has all been so sensationalized that the medical aspects have been lost. But if even only 1 guy out of 1,000 get it, I would rather be up front and alone than with a guy who could only accept me on a superficial level.

Quote from: Jocelyn on January 02, 2011, 09:23:03 PM
I don't think this is a fair statement. This may have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but things really are different now. The younger generation is far more open-minded about these kinds of things. I've dated lesbians that didn't like penises at all, and straight guys that also didn't like penises at all. But, we made it work because it really is just a stupid thing that doesn't matter. In fact, I've never once had my penis be a serious issue at all. Sure, it has kept me out of a few threesomes I would have wanted, but never out of any kind of meaningful emotional connection. I'm also generally only attracted to really open-minded people; people that are usually atheists that passionately support gay rights. I've always been almost exclusively physically attracted to females and been generally repulsed by the penis. However, I would have no problem spending the rest of my life with a male because I really just don't care what genitalia someone has. You can still find fun things to do regardless. There are plenty of other people out there with views just like me; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know where and how to look for them.

This is a really good point. They type of people we choose to associate with are going to be a big factor in whether or not we're accepted. These are the kinds of people that I associate with as well, and though I haven't dated, all of them have accepted me and my transition 100%. I wouldn't associate with anyone who wouldn't...

Quote from: Jocelyn on January 02, 2011, 09:23:03 PM
I don't think this is a fair statement. This may have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but things really are different now. The younger generation is far more open-minded about these kinds of things. I've dated lesbians that didn't like penises at all, and straight guys that also didn't like penises at all. But, we made it work because it really is just a stupid thing that doesn't matter. In fact, I've never once had my penis be a serious issue at all. Sure, it has kept me out of a few threesomes I would have wanted, but never out of any kind of meaningful emotional connection. I'm also generally only attracted to really open-minded people; people that are usually atheists that passionately support gay rights. I've always been almost exclusively physically attracted to females and been generally repulsed by the penis. However, I would have no problem spending the rest of my life with a male because I really just don't care what genitalia someone has. You can still find fun things to do regardless. There are plenty of other people out there with views just like me; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You just have to know where and how to look for them.

Quote from: JennX on January 03, 2011, 12:01:28 AM
I really have to disagree with this one. I'm "pre-op" and I've dated several doctors, lawyers, fire fighters and other "normal decent men" that would 100% contradict this statement. And more than not, most didn't disappear after learning of my "status". I think it has more to do with picking "decent open-minded men" in the first place more than anything else.

@both - Please both of you bear in mind that my experience of pre-op dating is based on the way things were in the late 1970's and early 1980's which was when I was last in that condition. It is a long time and I accept that things may have moved on, however personally I have to say that I think whilst people in general may be more broad-minded these days I am not sure how far that would extend when it came to dating.

If it has changed then good for you. I, of course, have no way (and indeed no desire) to go back to being pre-op to find out so I accept that I may be out of date on that aspect. My general point about the desirability of total honesty in relationships stands though.

Quote from: Northern Jane on January 03, 2011, 07:39:34 AM
I had SRS in 1974 and married in 1976. My husband didn't know my medical history and I didn't tell him - I felt it was nobody's business and I had been cured of my birth defect so that was that. He found out after we separated and was mad that I hadn't trusted him enough to tell him - he felt it was "a big deal" and I didn't see it as so important.

I married again in 1980 only this time I told my husband when things got serious. He was not just understanding but very sympathetic to the pain I must have gone through as a child. It turned out to be a good move (telling him) because when my medical history was leaked by a clinic worker, my husband was my biggest defender.

Having gone both ways, which would I do in the future? I  would share the story of my childhood not because it should matter to me or him but because it matters to (some) other people and it would not be fair to him to leave him unprepared for the possible gossip. It is something I do share and it is something "straight guys" have a problem with because it has all been so sensationalized that the medical aspects have been lost. But if even only 1 guy out of 1,000 get it, I would rather be up front and alone than with a guy who could only accept me on a superficial level.

Hats off to you Northern Jane, it was your story that inspired me to tell my Fiancé my history, when we finally got engaged and tolded Him I was trans, it was the best advice I ever learned on this board, I can never thank you enough for posting your experience, btw a very Happy New Year to all from a very happy housewife.
Pauline

Quote from: pretty pauline on January 03, 2011, 12:35:57 PM
Hats off to you Northern Jane, it was your story that inspired me to tell my Fiancé my history, when we finally got engaged and tolded Him I was trans, it was the best advice I ever learned on this board, I can never thank you enough for posting your experience, btw a very Happy New Year to all from a very happy housewife.
Pauline

I am so glad it worked out for you Pauline. Personally I couldn't imagine going into a serious relationship withholding information the other person may feel is important but it sure does limit the field of perspective mates! In my experience is was less of an issue in the 1970's but maybe that was because I was younger and more attractive LOL!

Quote from: Valeriedances on January 03, 2011, 11:43:06 AM
Making comments implying dating men is easy for transsexual women is wrong, misleading and totally disregards the tragedies, violence, abuse and simple rejection that so many face. Every time we reveal our past or our current status we are at risk.

This is not a topic to sugar coat because people die over this.

I'm sorry for disagreeing. We just can't disregard one of the most difficult aspects of being born with our condition. I completely empathize with the OP because it is disheartening.

I am encouraged by stories like Slanan's, Pauline's, Jane's, Octavianus, and others. They give me much hope for my own future as a post-op whose dream is to love and be loved by a man. But still, it is not easy to find or common and I dread revealing my past because, so far, it changes everything.

You have it completely backwards. If you want to avoid violence, that is exactly why you should reveal this information. Most of this serious violence is from people that feel tricked. Personally, I would never even so much as hold a guy's hand without having first told him I was trans, post-op or pre-op. If they aren't okay with it, then I probably wouldn't be interested in them anyways. Thinking you will never find love without hiding your status just seems silly to me. Like I said before, I believe it depends a lot on the type of people you associate with. I mostly hang out with college or grad school students, atheists, and people that support gay rights. I've probably told over 40 people of my status in person, and I posted a note on facebook to over 300 friends. I've yet to receive anything short of a glowingly positive reaction. I think a positive, open, and honest attitude towards being transgendered goes a long way.

If you are interested in some guy that is religious or doesn't support gay rights, please, do yourself a favor and let him know upfront before you even so much as kiss him.

Quote from: Valeriedances on January 03, 2011, 05:51:17 AM
When I was pre-op I dated all the time. These guys were bi or gay. Now that I'm post-op dating heterosexual men its a completely different thing. I've been rejected too many times for it to be a coincidence. They are phobic.

There isn't a straight guy on the planet that will go near a penis ...or they're not straight. They may be open-minded (bi) but certainly not straight. By definition them dating someone that happens to be transsexual makes them not straight/heterosexual (at least for that relationship) since we are not cis-gendered girls and either have or have had a penis. I'm talking sexuality not how the couple relates. Even post-op and the two are opposite sex, the male partner has to make a mental adjustment when informed.

I think the dating pool is much larger for pre-ops than post-ops who disclose. The guys are very different.

Yes & No. I hate labels. I really don't like them. However, if I go out with a guy who does not identify, self-label, or present in a "openly gay manner" and identifies as hetero, has been married, has kids, and tells me he's never been with another male in the biblical sense, he's hetero in my book. Based on your analysis a pre-op ts genitals dictates their partners sexual orientation, which is somewhat absurd. And totally disregards either person's mental, sexual and emotional identity. It's far too oversimplified to basis everything on anatomy alone.

Quote from: Valeriedances on January 03, 2011, 11:43:06 AM
Making comments implying dating men is easy for transsexual women is wrong, misleading and totally disregards the tragedies, violence, abuse and simple rejection that so many face. Every time we reveal our past or our current status we are at risk.

This is not a topic to sugar coat because people die over this.

Again, I somewhat agree and disagree. If your a pre-op MTF TS and decide to reveal your status to a guy in a dark parking lot all alone that you know has somewhat of a temper... is that really the wisest move?

I've been in situations where I honestly didn't know how a guy would react, especially when he was 100% clueless about me. I would always have these conversations in public places and with a least a friend or two near by. Such as at local bar, where my friend Mark tends bar and is a former professional body builder, for example. I guess what I'm trying to say here, is I understand the "implied danger"... but an ounce of prevention is worth of pound of cure. Use good judgement and plan ahead.

For the record I only disclose my pre-op MTF status to a guy after a minimum of 3 dates. It's not something I feel like discussing before then. Unless we have mutual friends.

My best friend is a local TS woman who is preop. She has been with her husband for over 25 years. He identifies as strictly hetero. He is able to see past the birth defect cause she is completely a woman and they are in love.

I do not think that the penis makes a man and I don't think that every man who has sex with someone with a penis is gay or bisexual.
The world is not black and white.....