Hey,

So, my bf and I have been living together for years, and we'd marry, but he thinks I'm a normal girl. I've mentioned the word trans gender in relation to me, and he knows I'm questioning my gender identity at the moment.  I think he thinks that I'm going to decide that this is all a phase and that I'm a regular girl, albeit a tomboy.  The reality is I've been more feminine with him than I've ever been, and it's not working out.  I think he'll probably leave when I come out to him, but he has said that he loves my soul, regardless of whether I call myself a girl or not, and that he's never met anyone as special as me, so there's hope.  The annoying thing is he sees me as a girl, and he thinks there are aspects of who I am (other than my body) that are inherently feminine simply because I have a female body, and he puts me in those categories even when they don't apply to me.  It was a problem even when I first met him, but I just ignored it because everything else about the relationship is awesome, and I hadn't considered that I could be trans gender then.  He loves women; he thinks they're beautiful, sweet, nurturing, etc, and I think women are awesome too, but I'm not one. 

on a side note, it's weird to say that because women are beautiful, the ability to nurture and care for a child is beautiful, and despite the wild mood swings once a month, I think the whole concept of female fertility and the cycles female bodies go through in order to prepare for pregnancy is beautiful and powerful and wonderful (maybe I'm weird.)  And I have a body that can do that, and I understand it to an extent because every month without fail my reproductive system ->-bleeped-<-s with me, but I'm still a boy.  I think this is all beautiful, and I have the parts, but I can't do it.  It just seems weird to me... like why wouldn't I want beauty?  I'm an artist; I love beauty.  But, uh, a pregnant me would not be beautiful- it would be very bitchy.

Sorry for rambling... anyway, he's generally an intelligent, open-minded person, and I think if he truly educated himself he'd have no problem with trans people.  At the moment, he's incredibly ignorant.  I tried to explain the difference between sex and gender, but he just doesn't get that you could have a body that doesn't match your gender- I guess it's difficult to understand what you can't experience.    I'm not all that good at communicating, and he's not going to read more than about a page unless he's really really interested.  Also, I don't want to come out to him right now exactly.  I want to present a few basic things about being trans that would get him thinking, without making a big deal out of it, so he hopefully won't think I'm up to something, and press me for answers immediately.  When I do come out to him, it'd be easier if he's already had time to digest some facts about being trans instead of just going off of myths.  Of course, coming out will probably still kill the relationship, but it's worth a try. 

Basically, right now he says that he feels bad for trans people because they want to be something that they never can be.  He has a point; I will never have a penis.  However, I want to find a way to explain to him that just because I'll never have the body, and I don't yet have the socialization, I already have the mind and soul of a person that is not female (I'm still deciding on a label for myself.)  Also, he uses the fact that I can't judge corners when I drive my car very well, and other stupid stuff like that to prove that I'm a normal girl.  More so than anyone I've ever dated he genders life, which I find real annoying.  In fact, that's the biggest argument that we had for a while.  For the longest time I tried to argue that men and women are not inherently different, and it's all due to socialization.  I abandoned that theory when I realized that my need to prove that I'm just like a guy and not like a girl might stem from not actually being a girl... not because men and women are exactly the same.  He thinks that while men and women are different, the different roles that they typically perform are equal, and he personally prefers the company of women in general.  He was raised by sweet women, and he loves them.  He thinks I've just been brainwashed by this culture to believe that being a nurturing mother, being compassionate and gentle, being expressive and emotional and all of that is inferior to traditionally masculine roles, and that if I could just move past that, I'd be proud to be a girl.  I agree with him, but I don't agree that I have those traits.  Technically my body can nurture a baby, but that doesn't mean that I have the heart/soul/emotional capacity/whatever to actually be a good mother.  I'm sweet and sensitive, and I want to work on being more thoughtful of others and on caring more about communicating and connecting with others, but I'm still a dude.  He thinks that because I'm compassionate and sweet that I'm definitely a girl too.  I'm openly compassionate and sweet because that was encouraged when I was a kid.  I remember being about three years old and being comforted while I cried over something that my best friend, a boy, was being reprimanded for crying over.  I know plenty of guys and ex boyfriends who are very sensitive and sweet; they just wouldn't be caught dead hugging or crying in front of another guy.  I think that's just a cultural thing.  And <not allowed> whoever says I can't be a sensitive gay artist. 

Anyway, if anyone has any advice on ways to break into trans oriented discussions, or of anything that would be useful to correct the myths that he believes, it's be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

I definitely think some education could help your boyfriend to be more understanding/accepting of you, however, if he's totally heterosexual, the chances are very slim that your relationship will survive your transition.  Of course, if he truly sees you as too feminine to be male-brained, he's probably in love with an inaccurate persona you've either helped create for him, or he grossly misinterpreted.  Sadly, that type of relationship is usually doomed to failure, but as you've said, you anticipated that.   I'm sorry, for what it's worth. ;_;

It's never easy, and I can certainly relate.  I was with a guy for 6 years (we lived together for 4 of them), and we also planned to marry eventually.  For the longest time his reply to my gender musings was "your personality's not particularly male or female, you're just you", then "ah, you're such a tomboy", then "you're a gay man in a woman's body", and by the time I revealed that I was bisexual at the tail end of our relationship, "you really are a guy...aren't you?"  We had a great friendship/partnership though, so it was hard to end it; it was amiable and comfortable and we had a great bond.   He was pretty non-judgmental all things considered really; he'd remarked a couple of times that he hoped medical science would improve FTM bottom surgeries someday, but he knew his orientation was very static.  He'd told me for years "I love you, but if you ever transition, we're just friends".  That was honest at least, which is more than I was with him.

As for media to help with your bf's understanding, this book was awesome IMO, lots of different authors and some of them were so articulate in expressing their socializations, dysphoria, coming out, and transition.  http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Out-Radical-Gender-Transformation/dp/0916397963/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1296185673&sr=8-6

As for film/TV, the documentary series Transgeneration was good (was originally on the Sundance channel I think), and I liked the movie 'Boy I Am" as well.  I'm sure some other people here might know of some other good sources too.  I've never been to a trans support group, but I think there's online ones for significant others on Yahoo groups.

Good luck!

Thanks!

I started watching Boy I Am, and it's actually been therapeutic.  Now I've just got to find a way to slip it into my boyfriend's life.

I think he might be bi, but just afraid to admit it because of how he was raised.  But I could be wrong and he could be completely straight.  He has said he loves my soul though... so who knows.   

Anyway, thanks for the sympathy and advice. 

Tough one.  Short of dropping a copy of "True Selves", or "Transgender Voices" in his lap and standing over him with a cricket bat, and demanding he read it, it sounds like he will only hear what he wants to hear I'm afraid.
Best of luck with things Sis.

Quote from: justmeinoz on January 29, 2011, 06:41:15 AM
Best of luck with things Sis.

Thanks!

We talked some last night, and I'm still trying to process it.  Basically between my new androgynous hair cut, and that I had looked at the gay and lesbian section of netflix, he was afraid i was a lesbian.  After saying it in different ways about 50 times, I think he got that sexual orientation and gender are different constructs, and that I'm questioning my gender, not my sexual orientation, and i like guys, and i love him.  he was actually a lot calmer and more understanding than I was expecting; he just seemed sad (and a little confused about being trans AND gay.)  he said he didn't want me to have a fake penis (welcome to the club,) and he wanted a girlfriend, not a boyfriend.  I kind of lied by saying I was probably just crazy, and i'm probably a girl, and I'm just young and questioning everything (well, the last part's completely true.)  so everything is OK for now, but the rest of the night was incredibly sad for me because I knew that I'm not going to be what he wants.  i know i should have been honest with him, but i felt like he was trying to immediately conclude that i am sure that i'm definitely a boy now.  i need to be in therapy longer before i make any decisions, and i may just end up identifying as genderqueer and elect not to have surgery.  i probably will have to transition though.  i just didn't want to have to decide in the middle of the night last night.

in the end, i think he wants someone who identifies as a girl, not just something in between male and female, so I guess it won't matter.  He did say that his ex wasn't just very feminine, but very womanly, and very into doing and being everything that came with it, and that maybe he just needed to remember that not every girl is like her.  i mean, i don't think i'm a girl in the first place, but he did seem to be trying to come to terms with having a boyish girlfriend, so at least he's trying...

on the sort of bright side, he was being adamant for the first time that i might be a guy, which gave me a lot of confidence since he was always the one to point out when i acted like a girl.  of course, he may have just been worried that i was lying about being a girl and trying to point out that i'm boyish, so i don't know.

and he said that it was difficult to treat someone as a girl when they don't see themselves as a girl.  he was sad when he said it, but VALIDATION!    my biggest fear was that he'd accept that i don't feel exactly like a girl, not really get it, and then continue to treat me as always.  i figured if i changed a few things about how i interact with him that he'd have to treat me as a guy, but i was terrified that it wouldn't work.  so as much as it sucks, it's incredibly refreshing to know that he is capable of seeing me as something other than female, even if it ends the relationship.

I've been together with my boyfriend for 3 years and lived together for 2.5 years. I did try to drop clues and mentioning things now and then throughout those 3 years but I didn't dare to come out for a long time, and none of it actually made him realize or suspect anything about me anyway. He's the kind of person who thinks everyone should be allowed to be whoever they want to be, be it a boyish girl or whatever, but the reality of being transgender or transsexual hadn't crossed his mind.
When I came out to him he was shocked and didn't know what to say. He never questioned me, but he acted for a time as if he was just waiting for it to pass and hoping it was all a bad dream. This was very hard for me, because I felt like he was still treating me like a girl, but he just needed time. I've struggled with GID my entire life, for him it was completely new.
After about a month he said: I love you, but I'm not gay (he was crying at the time)
A couple more months later he said: I love you even if you're a guy, I want to be with you and support you in transition.
We may still have to redefine our relationship down the line, but he's determined to at least try for as long as he can.

Your boyfriend has a lot to go through in his own mind, he might surprise you, or he might just leave you. The best you can do for him is actually to be completely honest with yourself, as I think you already know. It's easy to forget this sometimes though.

My boyfriend isn't much for reading things that doesn't really interest him, but he's all for listening to my own words for all of it, which is awesome. If he hadn't been interested at all, I frankly wouldn't be with him anymore, since this is such a huge part of me.
Funny thing is, he's been really worried that I would somehow start running after girls once on hormones and loose interest in him. And here I though that HE was the straight guy..

Say as it is, you need to see a therapist(if that's what you're gonna do) and work things out, and that maybe you will transition and maybe you won't. Even if you are not 100% sure right now, he should have the opportunity to decide if that's something he wants to go through with you or not, because to some people such insecurity will not work in their relationship. Took me a long time to accept this for myself. What I figured was this: if he can't accept this part of me and isn't willing to go through this with me, I never really "had" him at all :/