Yeah, but the 'you can't come in UNLESS you're flamingly flamboyant' bar is most likely just across the street.

Quote from: long.897 on January 25, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals."  Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women.  An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility.  The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify. 

I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention.  He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia.  That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.

You may think it's silly, but you'd be amazed at the amount of homophobia that pops up among trans people. Obviously, as a trans person, I don't think the homophobia is the reason people transition - but to a gay cis person who's attuned to signs of homophobia but not completely trans-informed, it might seem realyl plausible as an explanation.

Quote from: long.897 on January 25, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals."  Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women.  An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility.  The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify. 

I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention.  He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia.  That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.

I can understand a lot of this reasoning. Equally, a lot of the motives and feelings behind it.

We tend to be associated with the gay set because we tend to be seen as a variation on the gay notion.

For my own part, I knew I was female long before I knew anything about physiocal attraction or experienced it.

But this indicates that many are still attemptig to come to terms with the whole transgender notion.

Many of us will recall a time when there was similar rationale toward gay people. That they were men who lacked the confidence to find a girlfriend. That they were men, stuck at the anal stage of their development. That they were men who were cowards and didn't want to fight. That they were sick, preverted individuals, fixated on bottoms and were a danger to anyone or any animal that had a bottom.

These arguments, attempting to explain and dismiss transgender are sometimes joined by notions of preversions, including being a danger to children.

I'm pretty sure these will eventually die away.

I remember in the 60's when my neighbor was in the local state hospital for being gay and i was there for wearing womens clothes. It took another almost 10 yrs for gays not to be considered mentally ill. Its amazing how times have changed yet we are still listed as being some sort of mental illness with a need to resolve our problem with surgery and transitioning if the Dr approves.

When put in the situation described by the OP, I always stand up for the victim.

Often the obvious 'victim' is not the real victim.

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2011, 09:15:56 PM
Often the obvious 'victim' is not the real victim.

Are you questioning my judgement?

I know, it's a long line, but don't worry there symbol girl (BTW Prince did that trip a decade ago at least), I brought a full rucksack of provisions, a grill, two full coolers, and a double-wide RV so I can handle the wait.

Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2011, 09:29:55 PM
I know, it's a long line, but don't worry there symbol girl (BTW Prince did that trip a decade ago at least), I brought a full rucksack of provisions, a grill, two full coolers, and a double-wide RV so I can handle the wait.

What?

Uncalled for Tekla.  No need to make remarks about peoples ID.

And Damn Vexing, you got an old Lesbian's heart beating a little quicker.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 26, 2011, 09:35:37 PM
Uncalled for Tekla.  No need to make remarks about peoples ID.

And Damn Vexing, you got an old Lesbian's heart beating a little quicker.

P.S. I had a dream last night that I went with you for your SRS. I like positive dreams like that!

from your dreams to the gods ears. 

I wonder what Freud would say about this. Dreams can tell us very interesting things about us.

I've never been a part of the LGBT community, so I don't experience any discrimination from anyone who so happens to be gay. People can be mean, and it doesn't matter what background they are from.

Okay..... back to the subject at hand... I could care less if gay folks, strait folks or unicycle roller derby chimps like me or not 

Quote from: In Limbo... on January 26, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
I wonder what Freud would say about this. Dreams can tell us very interesting things about us.

That deep down I'm a gooey, loveable pushover, not the acerbic curmudgeon I make myself out to be.
Kinda like a female version of Dr. House.

The entire issue here is really one, not of rights, but of decorum.  If you wanted to start a mosh pit at a Slayer show, I'd be all like 'more power to you.'  If you wanted to do it at Celtic Thunder or Adam Lambert I'd have to have security 'escort' you from the building.  If you want to wear a set of khaki pants and a colorful rep tie, try the yacht club, if you like your colors on your back stitched on leather with a huge skull and a set of black tipped wings on the front, perhaps the yacht club is not the place for you.

But it does require a basic notion of appropriate social behavior to understand that.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 26, 2011, 09:56:20 PM
Okay..... back to the subject at hand... I could care less if gay folks, strait folks or unicycle roller derby chimps like me or not 

I'd be devastated if unicycle roller derby chimps didn't like me! They generally like everyone!

My experience of gay people, lots of nice people, some arseholes, bout the same as everyone else really

Quote from: MillieB on January 26, 2011, 10:07:30 PM
My experience of gay people, lots of nice people, some arseholes, bout the same as everyone else really

Zactly.
Perhaps the advice best given to the OP is "Gay people aren't the problem; you need to stop hanging out with ->-bleeped-<-s."

Quote from: MillieB on January 26, 2011, 10:07:30 PM
I'd be devastated if unicycle roller derby chimps didn't like me! They generally like everyone!

Okay I confess... It hurts pretty deep when that happens 

Quote from: ▼Ξ✖ on January 26, 2011, 10:10:12 PM
Zactly.
Perhaps the advice best given to the OP is "Gay people aren't the problem; you need to stop hanging out with ->-bleeped-<-s."

And you wonder why we arent friends   


Anyway, you obviously did not read. I said i met them at the bar and the invited us over for a drink.