Quote from: Britney_413 on February 09, 2011, 02:17:38 AM
Neither system is fair but I consider the private system freer. If healthcare (or other things) are mostly public then there is no competition, no incentive to improve care or service. Plus, with whatever little private options there are these won't have competition either (except against the public system) and thus will drive the cost of the private care/services significantly upward forcing practically everyone except the extremely wealthy to choose the crappy public system.

The problem with private system only in USA is that we have approx 50 million people with no insurance whatsoever. You are already paying for their emergency room care in your private insurance rates.

QuoteThis is why I'm not a socialist. Most people do or can get jobs so I don't see why a socialist system should be imposed on everyone.

We already have "socialism", as you call it. Our elected representatives have a fantastic health care plan that they can buy into, and that we, the taxpayers, are paying for! Medicare and Medicaid work quite well for those who are retired or disabled. We could have a Medicare for All in the US that would cover everyone in need, and private care and plans would still exist for those who had the money.

None of my Canadian or European friends who I've talked to would trade their system for ours!

Z

Quote from: rejennyrated on February 09, 2011, 06:15:45 AM
Sometimes thread topics do evolve just like any conversation - and indeed there is a common theme to the topic - which is easy access to appropriate and relevant care. So in this particular instance I beg to respectfully differ on that point.

As long as it doesn't devolve into a poo slinging match...i'm well aware of how contentious the whole issue of public health care is in the states.

Quote from: rar on February 07, 2011, 07:41:44 PM
They're impossible if you can't afford three+ months of therapy or if you can't afford an endocrinologist or if you have to drive out of state to find a GP who'll see you just for regular stuff, not to mention anything trans-related. The SOC only works for people with enough money to make it work, and even then, as in pebbles' case, it doesn't work well.

You're assuming we have a choice.

Well, okay, we do: use whatever means necessary or don't transition medically.

I really do sympathize with you; just trying to encourage anyone in your situation to not give up. At first I was afraid to try, and worried about costs, but eventually found a therapist that only charged $15 per session (a clinic with income based sliding scale) with visits every 2 weeks so 3 months was under a $100. I realize even that might be hard for some.  I wish you the best.

Quote from: pebbles on February 07, 2011, 02:39:39 PM
Those people don't have the moral authority to rip into those black market drug dealers.

Simple fact is I told my GP about my feelings when I was *20* I'm 24 next month. They are completely corrupt and utterly useless I don't expect any resources to come from the NHS or the decadent protocol that basically says "leave him to die" The only reason I'm dealing with them at all is to appease my naive friends and family. Thus far I've been proven right the only practical resource I've gotten thus far is a single useless blood test bag with the WRONG name on it. Despite me telling him that isn't my name anymore.

I jump all the hoops am friendly and polite to everyone I meet but I don't expect any of them to give a damn.

So don't rip into the few groups of people who have actually helped me out. Sure I know they are drug dealers and criminal mercenaries who exploit the crap out of me to give me what I need but least they actually helped me and gave me a tiny degree dignity over my otherwise bleak and miserable life.

A claim that the so called Legitimate medical establishment cannot claim to do.

The NHS has to help you. There was a link posted on here late last week with a couple of leaflets about Transgender. YOu need to take the GP one to your GP and show them that they have to prescribe hormones if you are self medicating. They also have a duty of care o check your blood numbers if you tell them you are self medicating.

Your GP is also supposed to refer you to Charring Cross for diagnosis. IF they haven't then go and find a new GP who will.

Where are you in the UK ?

Quote from: Catherine on February 13, 2011, 10:46:24 AM

Your GP is also supposed to refer you to Charring Cross for diagnosis. IF they haven't then go and find a new GP who will.

Where are you in the UK ?

yes Jenny PMed me those I'm seeing him in a few weeks time I will bring it up them.

Wanna know what precisely happened to me. When I was 20 told a GP who didn't do anything didn't refer me on or anything just told me that the NHS dosen't deal with that stuff.

He wouldn't hear debate on the matter I tried seeking out local mental health services about this but they wanted a GP referral or to see me first hand as I was too ashamed (And feeling all the worse thanks to GP experience) for why I needed to see someone. So they turned me away too.

A couple of years later I'm self medicating I see a different GP.

He was naive but more understanding... He referred me to a local psychiatrist. the psych gave me a mental assessment
to me and told me he thinks I'm a transsexual and I don't have anything else wrong with me.

He said he would refer me to the people who have to approve funding for this stuff once funding is approved you goto charing cross barring the 9 month waiting period. and time to get funding approved.

6 weeks later I got a letter from him saying something like "whoops I did it wrong I referred you to the wrong people. so you've not got your referral yet. Wait abit longer please" Then another 6 weeks later I got a different letter saying "Oh whoops... Your GP is suppose to make the referral not me apparently. sorry for wasting another 6 weeks"

The GP sends me off to the hospital to see an endocrinologist I saw the Endo and he disliked me immensely he has a problem with transsexuals and he mentioned he dosen't feel he should deal with me at all but will because he has to.
He kept using my old name after I told him otherwise he toyed with the idea of prescribing a hormone regime before dismissing it. explaining that I haven't died yet and I appear to have gotten reasonable results already so he will just leave me to it.

He then gave me two blood test bags with my male name on it despite me telling him that isn't my name one to use now and one in 6 months time I went off got the blood test which checked my Kidneys, Liver, and thyroid. he did not check Prolactin/Testosterone/Estrogen

It took longer than anticipated to get my blood tests back because he used my wrong name and caused an administrative panic as that name is no longer linked to an NHS number ¬.¬ when I finally got them back they said I was fine.

I suspect it's gonna get better and better (sarcasm) because I'm graduating soon and will be moving away from here which will probably give the PCT a good reason to not help me. That will now definitely be before I can arrive at that first appointment.

I'm currently in colchester southeastern England I will be moving back to Hampshire southern England soon.

Quote from: pebbles on February 13, 2011, 01:00:29 PM
yes Jenny PMed me those I'm seeing him in a few weeks time I will bring it up them.

Wanna know what precisely happened to me. When I was 20 told a GP who didn't do anything didn't refer me on or anything just told me that the NHS dosen't deal with that stuff.

He wouldn't hear debate on the matter I tried seeking out local mental health services about this but they wanted a GP referral or to see me first hand as I was too ashamed (And feeling all the worse thanks to GP experience) for why I needed to see someone. So they turned me away too.

A couple of years later I'm self medicating I see a different GP.

He was naive but more understanding... He referred me to a local psychiatrist. the psych gave me a mental assessment
to me and told me he thinks I'm a transsexual and I don't have anything else wrong with me.

He said he would refer me to the people who have to approve funding for this stuff once funding is approved you goto charing cross barring the 9 month waiting period. and time to get funding approved.

6 weeks later I got a letter from him saying something like "whoops I did it wrong I referred you to the wrong people. so you've not got your referral yet. Wait abit longer please" Then another 6 weeks later I got a different letter saying "Oh whoops... Your GP is suppose to make the referral not me apparently. sorry for wasting another 6 weeks"

The GP sends me off to the hospital to see an endocrinologist I saw the Endo and he disliked me immensely he has a problem with transsexuals and he mentioned he dosen't feel he should deal with me at all but will because he has to.
He kept using my old name after I told him otherwise he toyed with the idea of prescribing a hormone regime before dismissing it. explaining that I haven't died yet and I appear to have gotten reasonable results already so he will just leave me to it.

He then gave me two blood test bags with my male name on it despite me telling him that isn't my name one to use now and one in 6 months time I went off got the blood test which checked my Kidneys, Liver, and thyroid. he did not check Prolactin/Testosterone/Estrogen

It took longer than anticipated to get my blood tests back because he used my wrong name and caused an administrative panic as that name is no longer linked to an NHS number ¬.¬ when I finally got them back they said I was fine.

I suspect it's gonna get better and better (sarcasm) because I'm graduating soon and will be moving away from here which will probably give the PCT a good reason to not help me. That will now definitely be before I can arrive at that first appointment.

I'm currently in colchester southeastern England I will be moving back to Hampshire southern England soon.

Ok well I am in Southampton. IF you need a group to help you along then the one that I attend will probably be good for you.

Go to www.chrysalis-gii.co.uk and get in contact. Once you have spoken to them they can help by pressuring the right people to do the right things for you.

You seem to have gotten in a hole with the NHS but it is sortable even though it has wasted time.

If your GP doesn't refer you to the shrinks immediately you need to get a new one.  They are supposed to do it straight away even though we are now recognised as having a condition and not mental illness.

The protocol is to refer to the shrinks who will decided after a few consultations to refer you to charring cross.. then you apply for the funding.... 2 months.... you then get an appointment at charring cross which can be 6 months or more later...

when you get to charring cross you see one doctor if he thinks you are trans then you get a blood test and an appointment with a different doctor in 3-4 months... if he agrees then you get hormones.

Once you get in the system then things are pretty straight forward. It is just getting past ignorant GP's of which there are loads.

IF you need to know anything about chrysalis then pm or email me...

Quote from: straycat on February 13, 2011, 05:52:40 AMAt first I was afraid to try, and worried about costs, but eventually found a therapist that only charged $15 per session (a clinic with income based sliding scale) with visits every 2 weeks so 3 months was under a $100. I realize even that might be hard for some.

But I can find hormones on the black market for less than $100, and I can have them in my possession much sooner than weeks or months.

So, where is exactly is the motive for me to seek therapy?

It seems that people have missed the whole point of this topic.  The black market promises a product which is FAST and CHEAP.  People like stuff that is fast and cheap.  Therapy is not fast, and usually not cheap.  Until this changes, the demand for hormones on the black market will not change.

Quote from: Catherine on February 14, 2011, 05:19:04 AM

Ok well I am in Southampton. IF you need a group to help you along then the one that I attend will probably be good for you.

Go to www.chrysalis-gii.co.uk and get in contact. Once you have spoken to them they can help by pressuring the right people to do the right things for you.

You seem to have gotten in a hole with the NHS but it is sortable even though it has wasted time.

If your GP doesn't refer you to the shrinks immediately you need to get a new one.  They are supposed to do it straight away even though we are now recognised as having a condition and not mental illness.

The protocol is to refer to the shrinks who will decided after a few consultations to refer you to charring cross.. then you apply for the funding.... 2 months.... you then get an appointment at charring cross which can be 6 months or more later...

when you get to charring cross you see one doctor if he thinks you are trans then you get a blood test and an appointment with a different doctor in 3-4 months... if he agrees then you get hormones.

Once you get in the system then things are pretty straight forward. It is just getting past ignorant GP's of which there are loads.

IF you need to know anything about chrysalis then pm or email me...

We are I think getting a fair way off topic now - but just one thing to add. Until I found and read those documents I would have said exactly what you have done, but reading "small print" it turns out that it is possible in theory at least to get started on HRT though your GP before you have even reached a CIC - oh an one thing to note - NOT everyone will end up at CXH - there are several other places where you can be diagnosed - CXH is just the best known one of them.

An efficient healthcare system would avoid black market hormones and surgeries. People will naturally be inclined to travel the path of least resistance to get what they need. After reading some of the stories here about people spending years and going through dozens of different government departments and still not getting any hormones, I'd probably be going black market too. That is why I can't stand government programs because they install gatekeepers which do more to stand in the way of getting people what they need than actually helping. It happens in private systems too but usually only when a lack of money is involved. I'd favor a healthcare system with no gatekeepers, and forced personal responsibility. In other words, whatever drugs you want you get but you agree to the consequences. This is a much more efficient way than barriers set up to "protect people from themselves" by forcing people to go through strings of health providers just to see if they are fit for a treatment. But that means people also have to use their brains at the same time and be careful about what they are jumping into.

Quote from: Britney_413 on February 15, 2011, 02:10:30 AM
An efficient healthcare system would avoid black market hormones and surgeries. People will naturally be inclined to travel the path of least resistance to get what they need. After reading some of the stories here about people spending years and going through dozens of different government departments and still not getting any hormones, I'd probably be going black market too. That is why I can't stand government programs because they install gatekeepers which do more to stand in the way of getting people what they need than actually helping. It happens in private systems too but usually only when a lack of money is involved. I'd favor a healthcare system with no gatekeepers, and forced personal responsibility. In other words, whatever drugs you want you get but you agree to the consequences. This is a much more efficient way than barriers set up to "protect people from themselves" by forcing people to go through strings of health providers just to see if they are fit for a treatment. But that means people also have to use their brains at the same time and be careful about what they are jumping into.

Funnily enough it turns out that it isn't quite like that though. The official guidelines that I found say that everyone should have access to hormones and they actually allow for the possibility for this to happen without gatekeepers. In any case the gatekeeper mentality was started by the whole WPATH thing with its requirements for certain letters and so on.

What has actually happened in the UK though is that this new guideline document has been "lost" in the muddle of bureaucracy and so everyone including most of the patients THINKS there are still gatekeepers - when in actual fact far from installing them the government abolished them in 2008 when it published this new protocol. If read carefully, it allows early access to hormones on an informed consent basis and as a harm reduction measure. No more HRT gatekeepers.

Pebbles and others like her are having problems not because of government policy, but because of confusion. The uk system has been evolving rapidly in recent times as our understanding of what it means to be trans has changed from the mental health model that you in the USA still hold, to a medical one that we now hold. Meanwhile some parts of our system like Pebble's GP haven't yet caught up and are still trying to operate in the old way.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on February 14, 2011, 05:47:24 AM
So, where is exactly is the motive for me to seek therapy?

It seems that people have missed the whole point of this topic.  The black market promises a product which is FAST and CHEAP.  People like stuff that is fast and cheap.  Therapy is not fast, and usually not cheap.

I like fast and cheap too, but sometimes fast and cheap is dangerous and may not bring the best results. I think the motivation for us to seek therapy other than just because it is required can be in order to be safer under medical supervision, have guidance in the process, and avoid doing things we might regret later.

There are numerous accounts on this site and elsewhere of medical problems that can occur with HRT.  Many of us have other issues, possibly caused by GID, for which therapy can be helpful.  It can be good to have guidance in transition and dealing with all the changes in our work, families, and daily life in order to have a successful transition.

Therapists know of a number of kinds of people who come to them with the desire for hormones and sex reassignment surgery but for whom it would not be appropriate.  They include criminals wanting to change their identity to escape the law, people with Munchausen syndrome or psychiatric disorders that make them delusional, and others that learn in the process of therapy that they are not transsexual.  If hormones and surgery are available without any kind of intelligent evaluation these people and/or our society suffers.

I'm just trying to present the other side, why it can be good to have therapy and medical supervision particularly now that we are gaining more acceptance and it is easier now than in the past to do so.

The new version of the DSM will make GID less stigmatizing and more sympathetic to us. More doctors are less strict than WPATH because they realize too much of it is unnecessary. In the U.S., major cities  have LGBT health clinics. E.g., Chicago has Howard Brown where I was able to start HRT after showing informed consent as to the benefits and risks. I had an hour consultation and blood tests, though I can't remember if I had blood tests at an earlier visit or the same day my RN gave me my prescriptions. I didn't need any expensive psychiatric tests or counseling.

Major retailers such as Wal-Mart have cheap generic drug programs. http://www.walmart.com/cp/1078664 has list. Most are $4/$10 for a 30/90 day supply. That includes Estradiol and spironolactone. Finasteride is $9/30 days. They also have medroxyprogesterone acetate for the $4/$10 price, but I'll pay the higher price for micronized progesterone elsewhere because it's safer.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/ has an excellent hour video plus other info comparing the health care systems of the U.S., U.K., Switzerland, Germany, Taiwan, and Japan.

The U.S. has by far the highest administrative costs in the world, spends the most per capita, yet gets far from the best outcomes in many areas. The WHO's last ranking of country health systems in 2000 at http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html rates the U.S. at just 37! They've stopped ranking because of the complexity, and probably the difficulty of weighting different factors.