Hi everyone,

I'll be brief about my background. I'm a 40 year old natal male, MtF inclined since before adolescence, with what I refer to as "low grade gender dysphoria." That is, I have some strong inclinations but without the extremes of depression, urgency, or body dysmorphia that I see other people describe. Because of certain changes in my personal circumstance, I am more free to explore this than in my past. I've been on the fence about HRT ever since I knew there was such a thing, but I am not necessarily intent upon transition and SRS due to the very high *social* cost.

While I know there is controversy about the "two type" hypothesis of early versus late onset gender dysphoria, and while we can debate where (or even if) to draw the line between the two proposed "types" I do identify - to a certain extent - with the "autogynephilic" camp. On the "Harry Benjamin Scale" I'd put myself at a "3" or maybe "4". Consequently, one of the issues I want to resolve personally - through counseling and introspection - is the issue of separating "testosterone driven fantasy fetish" from actual gender dysphoria.

To this end, I had requested - without explaining why - that my GP test my testosterone level. I have a good libido and really oily skin and hair, so I was betting it was high, thus fueling the fire of my dysphoria so to speak. Today, I met with her to discuss the results. She stated, "I wanted to discuss this result with you, because your result is low enough I think you would definitely benefit from a testosterone supplement." My result was: 242... I'm hypogonadic.

I almost laughed in her face as she was telling me this, and told her "Well, I don't think I want testosterone, actually I think I want the opposite..." In response to her puzzled expression, I filled her in on my background and gender issues. Maybe I'm off base here, as this is the first time my T level has ever been checked, but I'll speculate that I've been low-T my entire life. In my mind this could explain certain things - and rule out certain others - as a significant factor in my gender issues.

I stated as a result I had been intending to inquire with a clinic nearby (if you can call a 4 hour drive nearby) specializing in LGBT issues, which has an informed consent policy with regard to HRT. She admitted she would be more comfortable with this as she was not familiar enough with HRT regimens to be comfortable with prescribing this.

Another tidbit, I asked my mom, she says she definitely was not administered Diethylstilbestrol (DES) during her pregnancy, so that rules that out as a possible physiological factor.

So, I'm not really asking any questions, but I do appreciate your comments and insight.

Thanks!

marcy

Hey Marcy,

There are all sorts of reasons T can be low but I don't think you could say conclusively that there is a connection between that and your dysphoria.

But perhaps your dysphoria would be much higher if you had more T in your system, so perhaps it is a blessing.  Just one idea.

I think in terms of where you go from here it does not have a lot of relevance. I mean it won't change what you want or desire. It just might affect your med levels if HRT is the course you decide to take.

Autogynophillia is a bit of a red herring I think. Certainly you can want to be a woman and objectify them at the same time, and therfore get off on the thought of yourself as one. Also I think if you struggle with being a guy and you are a transexual, then becoming a woman would be sexualy quite liberating. i.e. sexuality is not focused so much on yourself but more on how you could express it as a woman. 

I used to feel turned on thinking of myself as a woman, because as a woman is how I could best express my sexuality, how I would feel most comfortable being sexual and after being somewhat inhibited for so long it was a powerful heady thing. 

Autogynoloadofcrapism is not a reason to not transition.

Hi Nicky! Thanks for your comments.

Quote from: Nicky on February 09, 2011, 10:36:07 PM
There are all sorts of reasons T can be low but I don't think you could say conclusively that there is a connection between that and your dysphoria.

You're absolutely correct. While I do think my low-T and MtF issues are *related*, I agree this is not conclusive nor is it the only factor.

Quote from: Nicky on February 09, 2011, 10:36:07 PM
But perhaps your dysphoria would be much higher if you had more T in your system, so perhaps it is a blessing.  Just one idea.

Uhh, yeah. Big time.

Quote from: Nicky on February 09, 2011, 10:36:07 PM
Autogynophillia is a bit of a red herring I think.

I know this is a hot button issue and quite controversial. I remember reading about it for the first time a while back and having almost an epiphany "OMG that's so totally meeee!" kind of attitude. But there's a lot more wrapped up in it, both in terms of the political motivations of the theorists behind it, as well as the negative purely-fetishist connotations associated with this theory. I'll stick with saying I think I'm less of "I'm a girl in a boys body" and more of "I should have been a girl."

I'd be a liar if I did not admit that my MtF issues are conmingled with sexuality. But darnit, I'm more than a fetishist. But I'm at the same time less than the "classic" transexual. I definitely want certain things, certain physical "feelings" of femininity which could be brought about by HRT, less than I want acceptance of me in the public social role of female. But that wouldn't be bad, mind you, but practicality unfortunately sometimes comes before principles. And that option is always open to me down the road.

I suppose that puts my outlook at odds with some folks here. But of course we must all follow our own path to happiness. Life is too short to bicker over the details.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on February 09, 2011, 10:47:29 PM
Autogynoloadofcrapism is not a reason to not transition.

I am not sure if your comment is dismissive, so I apologize in advance if I am taking this wrong. I admit the idea of  ->-bleeped-<- is controversial and flawed.

Elsewhere you state: "Am I transgender?  Should I transition?  These are the kind of questions that, if you are even asking them, the answer is probably yes." 

I'm not asking. I assert that I am transgender. Do I qualify?

There was a time when I thought - "I wish I was a girl".  My gender identity is female, but that did not automatically make me think "I am a girl". That realisation took a long time. 

Yeah, it is a good consideration - practicality, is living as I am now going to give me a better quality of life than if I transitioned? Often you can't quantify this as there are so many unknowns. A lot of people transition when they reach a point where they don't care, living as they are just gets so painful they are forced to act. I wish I had transitioned before I reached that point, but again, I could not predict I would reach that point so it is kind of a moot point. Perhaps If I transitioned before that point I might of been left asking myself was this the right thing? It has been freaking hard. When weighed against suicide, being myself but losing my wife was a good trade. But if I had not known I would reach that low point would I have been left questioning my decision?

Marcy,

A lot of people are in the so-so camp that you're in.  I also identified with  ->-bleeped-<- when I was given the article by my gender therapist in my mid 20s.  It caused a lot of additional pervert shame and now ten years late I wish I'd never had read it and identify as trans-something.  I would like to go on hormones and live a more androgynous lifestyle..as female as I can feel comfortable.  I identify more as/with women but don't think I'd have a successful and passable transition.  I wear makeup on a daily basis and androgynous clothing and this helps me greatly with my GID...not fully enough to stop thinking about it..but I can see progress.  I was never suicidal but without some female gender experssion do not take care of myself and figured I'd die at any time..so it's sort of apathetic suicide.  I have had a successful life as a man and would like to continue with modifications to improve in taking care of myself physically and a general positive outlook.

I've never seen people refer to the Harry Benjamin scale before.

Quote from: japple on February 10, 2011, 04:43:52 AM
I've never seen people refer to the Harry Benjamin scale before.

Really the shrink I saw pulled it out towards the end of my psycological assessment and reckoned I was a "Type 5" whatever that supposed to mean :/

All I cared about was he didn't say I had schizophrenia.

I have hypogonadism (since childhood) and I imagine that it likely affected my development.  My regret is that I took T to induce puberty because that is what I was told to do and I thought it might make me feel better, but E would have been better for me I think.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments. I do appreciate it.

I have since reviewed a great deal of information on my diagnosis. It seems to me that I most find I am experiencing the following symptoms: low energy, and some mild depression and anxiety. I will ask a question at this point. If you have experience with this, and took E, did it help with these symptoms?

@japple

The whole "pervert shame" thing that's wrapped up in the  ->-bleeped-<- theory I think is damaging, and this negativity overshadows it's usefulness in terms of a diagnostic or theraputic framework.  I agree with your position on this.

The Harry Benjamin scale was a first stab at expressing the idea of a gender dysphoria continuum some 50 years ago. While I understand it is no longer representative of modern opinion on the topic, and it uses what is by today's standard is considered pejorative terminology, it's useful in that it is a framework in which one can say that one identifies more or less with certain things, which might assist one in developing effective strategies to deal with these things.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_scale

I am sorry you don't think you could transition successfully. Perhaps it is due to your physical traits, perhaps it is due to the social cost. In my case I think the latter is a bigger barrier than the former, though the former would still certainly be a challenge for me. We need to be realistic about certain things, yet I think many of the people here are inspirations as to what is possible.

@Pebbles

I am not asserting the Benjamin scale means anything at all. Instead I propose it still has some use as a framework for developing a strategy for action that might be right for you, as opposed to one that might be right for other people.

@Robertina

Thanks for your comment. May I inquire if you are taking E now? May I also ask what did you regret about T, the physical effects? Did it relieve some symptoms such as low energy?

Quote from: marcy319 on February 09, 2011, 11:18:35 PM
I'm not asking. I assert that I am transgender. Do I qualify?

I read your post to be saying: I think I am TG, except I fear I may just have sexual kink that means I am not really trans.  I don't really want to live as a woman, I just want to have sex fantasies about it.

Since I think that the theory that supports that kind of thinking is not worth what Barnum & Bailey rake out of the elephants' train car, logically, I think you are TG.  I hope that clarifies the intent of my original post.

I've never taken E before, but I think that it would benefit me, especially since I have severe osteoporosis.  The main thing that I did not like about taking T was a dramatic increase in my libido.  It also induced puberty (in my 20's), which I now regret.  The biggest advantage for me and the main reason I did try to take T was that it relieved the severe muscle pains I was experiencing.  I suppose it gave me increased energy, yet I've struggled with depression most of my life as well as low thyroid, so it is difficult to judge. 

Quote from: pebbles on February 10, 2011, 05:39:38 AM
Really the shrink I saw pulled it out towards the end of my psycological assessment and reckoned I was a "Type 5" whatever that supposed to mean :/

All I cared about was he didn't say I had schizophrenia.

I spent time in a mental hospital and had the same schizo fear. I'm a type 5 too! High five sister! (Like it's something that's totally awesome  )

When I was going through my teen years and very early twenties I devolved my identity with transvestite fetishism. I read about autogynophelia and thought to myself: "Self, this is you. You're attracted to women, you bury your homosexual desires, the feel of silk and nylon is exquisite, the shoes are sexy, makeup is exciting... Ignore the fact that you want to castrate yourself. Ignore the fact that you get along better with girls than you do boys. Ignore the fact that you can function fully, and sometimes better, outside when presenting as a girl. Just make this a private, sexual thing." This was after I told my mother I wanted to be a girl, was blown off, and went running back to the closet.

I completely destroyed myself sexually. I have a child, my wife enjoys sex, I have functioned in a male role hundreds of times with her. But I have almost always had to be absolutely begged, BEGGED, to have sex. I can go months without sexual release because of the guilt and disinterest. As a result, I have a very poor grasp on sexuality in general.

The good news is that a counselor can help you get through this to a comfortable understanding of your identity. Even a T-girl struggles with her female identity, most often because we weren't raised as one. Our stories may not line up, but fetishes are a part of every "normal" person's life. It's just... not being able to function well as your natal gender in a sexual situation is sort of a huge red flag.