Quote from: CindyJames on February 10, 2011, 01:49:48 AM
I'm also not sure what you do as a foreigner, I presume if the countries NA is played you follow what everyone else does, in the USA that is to stand (?), in the UK it is to ignore it (?)

Very much so Cindy. You give respect to receive it.

It should be said that the irreverence the English show toward national symbols is a long tradition going back almost 1000 years. There are numerous instances, including many of the nursery rhymes many of us know today. England has been governed by a long succession of outsiders, French, Welsh, Scots, Germans.

In regard to troops, for example, one of my favourite quips is, I support the troops, not the liars that sent them.

But the thing with the English, which I admire so much, is, when the chips are down, they stand together.

One of my favourite quips from WW2, during the bombing of the industrial cities, was, Hitler won't get us, he doesn't know our address.

Quote from: Catherine on February 09, 2011, 02:59:50 PM
Well maybe you ought to leave then. Go and see just how tolerant a lot of other countries really are. When you find out that they don't suit you maybe you will appreciate what you have here in the UK.

Why do you think I don't like england or appreciate it here? There are lot of things I like about living here, we have good humans rights, were not super religious, we don't get many natural disasters like tornadoes etc I just don't feel any pride for it. If someone or a group from england does something really heroic i'm not proud that they are english and so am I, i'm proud of them for doing somthing good. I don't feel special to be english and i'm not proud of my country as it's a bit of land, it's beautiful but not something I should be proud of.

Also I am thankfull to our military but not because they are english. I'm proud of the people in Egypt standing up for their rights but i'm not egyptian nor do I know anyone who is.

You really need to get out of the house more, (in this case, out of the nation), and take a stroll through the rest of the world.

Here is the basic deal.  If you have: a place to live that give you shelter from storms and can be heated when it's cold, have running water that is drinkable right from the tap, some food in the fridge and in your belly, have a bit of money, can read this, and have a computer, and are on the internet - then congratulations, you're living better than just about 99% of the rest of the people on this planet.

What's your point Tekla?

People should be:
1. More appreciative of what they have.
2. More understanding of how they came to have it
3. Far more aware of how easy it is to lose it.

Quote from: tekla on February 10, 2011, 09:14:58 AM
People should be:
1. More appreciative of what they have.
2. More understanding of how they came to have it
3. Far more aware of how easy it is to lose it.

pp

No doubt.

But with respect, I don't think you really understand the English psyche.

Don't worry too much, It too me many years.

In the county where I live, for example, English is spoken with three, quite distinctive accents, Hog, which is the traditional working class accent, a sort of working/middle class accent, with some interesting vowel sounds and the upper class accent. People speaking each of these might be born and raised, within a few hundred metres of each other.

Emigration in England is not the affair it is in the States. There, emigration tends to be seen as almost turning your back on your birthright. Here, it is seen as just trying something different. Those that don't emigrate demonstrate that they do like being here, they do appreciate this place and they stay put of choice.

I hold three passports, (potentially), I choose to stay.

Apart from the upper classes and those middle class people with social aspirations, patriotism and icon worship are almost unknown. Most here don't feel any need to demonstrate theirn loyality to this place, or any particular love for it. They are here by right.

I want you to know, I really do appreciate, that these notions are probably alien to you and most, in the likes of the US, plus many other countries. I found it incredably confusing when I first came. I had my head filled with warnings over impending communist invasion and the glory of the space race plus my continuing sorrow over the death of the late, late, late, late Kennedy. Yet these people played something called Cricket, with a piece of wood, a few twigs and a tennis ball they found in the gutter, in a back garden, that is about the size of the average US bathroom. They had 2 TV channels, no fridges, few owned a car and the old people were forever making references to 'The War'. When I asked, which war? I was, quite literlly, smacked on the side of my head.

I only started to understand these people, 3 years after I arrived.

But this is England. A strange, weird, facinating place with more variety than most of the world put together. They do things their way and always have done.

But with the greatest respect, suggesting those things to an Englishman is a bit like a 15 year old telling their parents they don't understand anything about life.

I'd say I'm a patriotic Englishperson. I even have a union flag in my room and a cross of Saint George and I know the lyrics to the first verse of the national anthem - but really, it's just a song - and (in our case) a very dull song at that.

300 odd years ago, no one had a national song. Our national anthem was sung after plays during some of out mid-eighteenth century wars. We also had a song about 'hearts of oak' (which would have been a cracking anthem) and one about eating roast beef, which could have all been a national anthem. The symbols of nationhood are always fairly arbitrary and to take them too seriously would be very un-english.

Oh, and my favourite quote I heard was by an old man coughing and spluttering up from one of the tube trains after 7/7, saying, 'I've been bombed by better people than that'.

Quote from: Shayne on February 11, 2011, 01:48:10 AM

Love that one 

All  I know of the American national anthem is 'oh say can you see'.   I rather like the fact that Americans are all patriotic and know the entire lyrics to their NA.    I can't stand the British NA what a depressing dirge.  When they play it at the Olympics I cringe.

Hey, when it comes to national anthems the French just kick everyone's ass, La Marseillaise is so much better than all the rest combined it's hard to imagine why anyone has ever tried to write one after that.

Quote from: tekla on February 19, 2011, 10:06:26 PM
Hey, when it comes to national anthems the French just kick everyone's ass, La Marseillaise is so much better than all the rest combined it's hard to imagine why anyone has ever tried to write one after that.

Wonder what Christina's French accent is like? I almost posted something slightly different, by accident.

Cindy

Yeah, well the French wouldn't think she was a good enough singer to start with.  They have taste.  When they had the 200 anniversary of the French Revolution they didn't even have a French person sing their anthem, they just went out and got the best, African-American mezzo-soprano Jessye Norman.  To see her wrapped in the tri color (imagine the howls if CA had wrapped herself in the flag, OMG!) in the open air beneath the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, well, just watch it.



And that kids, is how you do it.

Of course there is always this version of La Marseillaise which never gets old.

La Marseillaise Casablanca