Hi folks, please forgive my ignorance (actually, help me fix my ignorance if you can).  Do Non-Transsexual/Intersex Folks either require or deeply desire surgery to correct genitalia to match/unmatch (as applicable) to your identity?

If you are intersex and have been raised in your desired gender then the only reason for having surgery would be to fix a medical condition - for example a Complete AIS female would have internal testes which can turn carcinogenic and therefore may need surgical removal.

Someone with partial AIS who has male appearance may be hypospadias to varying degrees - that is where the opening of the penis is not quite at the tip - or in an extreme case the opening may be at the base of the shaft. (I had a very mild case which resulted in the opening being almost at the top but somewhat to the side).

In a more extreme case than I had this would require surgical intervention to fix it.

There are all sorts of other intersex conditions which result in ambiguous genitalia of all sorts. In times gone by these were routinely "fixed" at birth, until it was realised that those of us who have some degree of intersex development do not always identify as the sex that we most closely resemble.

Thus these days corrective surgery is often delayed until the child is old enough to express a view.

Many IS people do not wish any surgery to be carried out, and as long as there is no medical necessity their wishes should be respected.

Some of us end up effectively being both Trans and IS - but it is the trans part of the deal that drives us to surgery. The IS part is merely an additional (in my case fairly minor) variation.

Also I probably should explain that once one has accepted that one is IS the concept of gender roles tends to become almost meaningless - so my only motivation for having surgery - and indeed the only motivation that I truly understand in other people is PHYSICAL DYSPHORIA. For it was all about lack of identification with and dislike of the bits that I had, and a certainty that they should not be there, but that opposite sexed bits should.

I simply don't understand all this men do this and women do that guff. I am a female person pure and simple. My personality is the same it always was. It is my physical form that defines me as female, and not whether I happen to like car maintenance or flower arranging (or whatever other gender role stuff one might care to consider).

It depends on the person, how they view their body, their (dis)comfort with their body, etc.

So Jenny, would amy those scenarios you mentioned apply to non-transsexual/intersex folks? BTW, than you for helping me!

Quote from: Nygeel on February 12, 2011, 11:41:49 AM
It depends on the person, how they view their body, their (dis)comfort with their body, etc.

I know to get certain surgeries you need a letter (actually 2) at least in the U.S. and am curious if there are any non-ts/is folks who require this kind of surgery. Would this be more appropriate in the androgyny section?

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 13, 2011, 03:33:37 AM
I know to get certain surgeries you need a letter (actually 2) at least in the U.S. and am curious if there are any non-ts/is folks who require this kind of surgery. Would this be more appropriate in the androgyny section?

Yes there are - and if the IS condition is known about beforehand the requirement for letters is usually waived (at least in the UK). In my case my condition wasn't spotted until later - but ironically I still got surgery from a mainstream UK surgeon without needing any letters. It was all done on a nod and a wink with me. (I guess I like breaking the rules) 

As to whether this topic would be better in the androgyny section no - I would say absolutely not. There is a perfectly good intersex section so it could perhaps be moved there but I have deliberately left it here as you were talking about the crossover that exists between Trans and Intersex. This is the territory that I occupied. I consider that I was both - so it sits just as well in here.

Intersex people are not necessarily Androgynous, any more than they are necessarily trans or anything else. We are as varied as any other group of people. Some of us are also Trans, some are masculine some are feminine some are androgynous - the only common link is that we are physically intersexed to either a greater or lesser degree.

Thanks Jenny, I may still not be wording this right or it is entirely possible I am confused. I was told by someone that genderqueer folks also need surgery and that it is not just transsexuals and intersex folks. This is what I am trying to find out. I did some searching and couldn't link surgeries to genderqueer. 

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 13, 2011, 04:32:06 AM
Thanks Jenny, I may still not be wording this right or it is entirely possible I am confused. I was told by someone that genderqueer folks also need surgery and that it is not just transsexuals and intersex folks. This is what I am trying to find out. I did some searching and couldn't link surgeries to genderqueer.

Ah I think I get it now... Correct me if I am wrong here but I think you are asking about surgeries for people who want to become physically andogynous or to otherwise express a genderqueer identity in some way.

They do exist yes, and AFAIK these follow broadly the same rules and guidelines as any trans surgery. However because they are considered outside of the norms the psychiatric evaluation would almost certainly be rather more grueling and the person seeks such transformations would have to negotiate with the individual surgeon as not all would be happy carrying out such a procedure. However I do know of at least one person in the UK who has undergone such a process.

Quote from: rejennyrated on February 13, 2011, 04:47:42 AM
Ah I think I get it now... Correct me if I am wrong here but I think you are asking about surgeries for people who want to become physically andogynous or to otherwise express a genderqueer identity in some way.

They do exist yes, and AFAIK these follow broadly the same rules and guidelines as any trans surgery. However because they are considered outside of the norms the psychiatric evaluation would almost certainly be rather more grueling and the person seeks such transformations would have to negotiate with the individual surgeon as not all would be happy carrying out such a procedure. However I do know of at least one person in the UK who has undergone such a process.

Yes, this is what I am trying to find out. I told someone that only TS and IS require surgery for treatment and was told Genderqueer do as well.

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 13, 2011, 03:33:37 AM
I know to get certain surgeries you need a letter (actually 2) at least in the U.S. and am curious if there are any non-ts/is folks who require this kind of surgery. Would this be more appropriate in the androgyny section?

Since there are many many different kinds of surgeries you might need to pin point which surgery you're talking about. Again, it's all about body discomfort. If a person has a physical sex identity different from what they were assigned at birth then yea, they can have surgery. Not all places require two letters. I've heard of some people going to a certain doctor for vaginoplasty without a letter and were able to have surgery done. I'm pretty sure this doctor is in the US or a "western country."

Um, just speaking for me here...

This is more of a wish than a requirement... I think I might like to have my chest puppies...umm...I think the word I'm looking for here is "shortened."

Not that I'm big there...but gravity hasn't ever been much of a friend to me .

It'd be nice if I could get small enough to make a bra more* optional* than currently...Even my fleet of sports bras are hot-and not hot meaning sexy, hot meaning sweaty nuisances that cause me to get heat rashes, itch, and occasionally break out in braline skin fungus infections in the local climate.

I dunno if this is as much about gender as it is about comfort...I do find it very embarrassing when some hetero guy gawks at them
( A glance is forgivable and possibly involuntary-I have to whip my eyes away from nummy random cleavage too, but my eyes are up here, dude.)
This is not a pressing urge though.
I like my basement nerve endings too much to monkey with them. My recreational area stays untouched

I do imagine the answer to your question's going to vary a lot more...androgynes/neutrois/genderqueer people seem to be more heterogenous.

Hi.

There is another point here for us who are intersex & androgynous .  its not all ways the body side of the details tho surgery is & some times not needed. Because we are so different & each case needs to be looked at differently . .

You know the saying one size fits all  not so in our cases  nor mine.
For some of us its how our brain is wired ,. so Mentaly & Emotionally  im different yet again. in how i think.
& some time our xy xxy & so on dont allways work in the way we think they should . what im saying is we sure are a mix of differences   & what applys to one may be quite different from another. & i could tell you of my friend who has a lot of changes take place over time & that had to do with hormones a right mix, not synthic ones,    just ones body

...noeleena...

Quote from: noeleena on February 14, 2011, 02:27:07 AM
Hi.

There is another point here for us who are intersex & androgynous .  its not all ways the body side of the details tho surgery is & some times not needed. Because we are so different & each case needs to be looked at differently . .

You know the saying one size fits all  not so in our cases  nor mine.
For some of us its how our brain is wired ,. so Mentaly & Emotionally  im different yet again. in how i think.
& some time our xy xxy & so on dont allways work in the way we think they should . what im saying is we sure are a mix of differences   & what applys to one may be quite different from another. & i could tell you of my friend who has a lot of changes take place over time & that had to do with hormones a right mix, not synthic ones,    just ones body

...noeleena...

Hello Noeleena,
I just have a question if you don't mind answering. When your friend went through all the changes was it over a longer period of time? The reason i ask is that  have noticed over a bit of time that it seems like my body is becoming a bit more feminine and its starting to become more noticable the past year. It just seemed a bit odd as i am a bit older.
Thanks
Sarah