So in my transition it would seem HRT is my next step. I am 100% sure that I want to be a girl, what I am not so sure of is if I can handle life if I dont pass to 95% of people.  not that id be ashamed or anything, idk its a big thing tat this post isnt about

anyway

I have this fear that after everything said and done it wont be enough for me and I'll always feel incomplete, yet at the same time I dont feel like not transitioning is my best option...

so after reading a few accounts on a  few websites I heard how being on HRT for most Tgirls feels "right". and I feel like I need to try this before I can make the full decision to completely transition.  I feel like it'l either feel "right" or "wrong" and I can deal with that once I know.

but I also wonder if its maybe like the placebo effect, that most will be so happy to be on it and so happy for the changes that the feeling comes from that. my therapist also warned me that it makes you moody and emotional and I may confuse that for a "wrong" feeling.

so my question is to all who are on it. is it a good indicator for transition? i know theres permanent effects, but I really dont think it would take me more than two months to decide and at that point I dont see anything as being too irreversible to devastating.

my therapist has told me she is willing to sign for hormones when i'm ready, she knows that I'm taking everything into consideration and not just jumping in and trusts that If I feel its right then I can handle it. I would also like to add that I am very much leaning towards this path and unless someone can give me very good reason not to I think its what I need to do. I just wanna make sure I ask before I do it.

I also kind of feel like I need to push myself into the point of no return so I can get the strength to keep going and not hide out so much.

Here's the thing, when I lived as a boy I was deeply depressed. I used to abuse my body because I felt hopeless and I assumed that I would die in my 50s or 60s. I WANTED to die in my 50s or 60s. Morose and detached was the order of the day. I am neither of those things on E. Can I get very emotional and sad? Yes, but it has a different flavor. It is kind of hard to explain. My emotions can snap from state-to-state much more quickly. I cry and then I'm fine. However, I also have a constant state that just feels better. I smile quicker. I laugh quicker. I am more confident. I feel like I am worth something and that people will like me.  I can see a future that isn't bleak. I want to live a very long life to fully enjoy being a woman.

I hope that gives you a peak into what it can be like. At least that is how I have experienced it.

I was lot at like you, wanting to move forward but unsure and thinking that hormones might help me decide. I was focused on the physical changes and unsure about the mental and emotional changes. The thing is now I'm so happy with my emotions, they feel like they've come in alignment. Like Melody, I can cry then not only be fine but feel better. Before the tears wouldn't come and then I'd feel worse.

Quotemy therapist also warned me that it makes you moody and emotional and I may confuse that for a "wrong" feeling.

I can understand this because I am moody but it doesn't feel wrong. I just feel moody.

It's not a placebo effect though I believe that it happen a lot. A sorts of changes usually happen at the same time so it's hard to sort out what thing causes what effect.

The bottom line is that the changes brought on by taking hormones have added to my belief that I need to transition.

At your age I wouldn't worry about the passing thing.

Many do use HRT to help make that choice.  But you would have a good idea already, because you would have been discussing it with your therapist.

I'm not getting massive physical changes, or in fact even small to medium physical changes, but that may be an age and dosage thing. We are all probably on different dosages and this can be due to our endocrine checks and our liver function tests, for example. But I quite rapidly had a brain effect, I was a lot less 'angry' very quickly and a lot more content and, this might sound odd, I felt so much more feminine brainwise. I think the anti-A killing the T, which was low anyway, helped the anger issues. Probably also the feeling of moving forward helped, no doubt the E & P have helped the mind/brain.

Incidentally, I was out to dinner, yet again , last night and my GG female companion said. I can't believe how much you have changed in the last two years. Not just physically and emotionally in taking charge of your life and being able to be in total public. But you have become so female in how you talk, think and respond.

As to your original question, I believe it takes 'about' 4-6 months to kill off T production permanently, but it is a case by case basis, so if you decide to 'try' then it may be OK.  Without being too analytical, I think you are also having the same "Oh my Goddess do I do it" thoughts that most of us go through.  And there are lots of those moment coming up for you

Hugs and Good Luck

Cindy   

My very good friend in the UK Dr Russell Ried was a big proponent of the idea of using an early exposure to low dosage anti androgens and hormones to sort out those for whom the idea of being famale was some sort of sexually driven fetish from those for whom it was indeed a matter of total identity need. The idea is that the HRT removes the male libido and thus anyone for whom this is mainly just a sexual fantasy will not like what happens and will stop before they do themselves any harm. 

Despite the fact that Russell is now retired, and sadly encountered a bit of unfortunate controversy towards the end of his career, I am sure that this idea of his is slowly gaining wider acceptance, and will soon become part of the standard way to treat this condition. So yes I think that is an entirely valid way to proceed.

for some reason I was expecting everyone to tell me it was a bad idea :p

It's good to hear that others recommend this path. and/or have taken it. I really think its what I need to do to know for sure.

I guess the only thing to do now is find a doctor!

scaaaaary :p

Your therapist should have them on her/his books.

BTW I notice all the info has come from experienced people ( I was going to say old tarts) but then Melody came in and she isn't old. . Oh dear have I insulted any one 


Cindy

It is a good idea to try I originally half expected that taking HRT would diminish my desire to transition and perhaps this could have been another coping technique to deal with the feelings
I had I initially had no intention of fully transitioning.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.
It didn't work like that...  the whole thing blew up in my face.

It eased the pressure from my dysphoria alot however and released me from my suicidal depression... but this came at a heavy price.

Self-discovery.
I was no longer naiive or able to deny what I was. And the guilt about not having fixed myself sooner was SO bad I've still not ever gotten over this.

As I couldn't run away from this reality of what I am... I didn't have much choice... Full Transition was probably coming sooner or later but I was gonna do so when *I* felt comftorble not when the dysphoria or some head shrinker decided... That was actually 9 months later when I was passing enough to function socially and not feel humiliated by myself.

So yeah I think taking HRT without the express intent to transition at the time is fine... but be aware... If you are Trans... You might be crossing an event horizon in whitch there is no easy way back. (Some have Intertalia for exsample) but you can't de-explode the bomb.

As long as your prepared for that. and all of what not begin able to turn back will bring (Boobs, girly body ect)

I tried HRT for a week, for exactly this reason. I found that I grew lethargic for the first few days, but felt better overall. The big change, however, came when I ran out - I became restless, depressed, and filled with aimless rage. It was like putting on a set of cold, wet clothes after a good night's sleep, and I never got used to it.

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on February 16, 2011, 11:19:10 PMmy therapist also warned me that it makes you moody and emotional and I may confuse that for a "wrong" feeling.

I'm using my own methods for transition, and I have become a lot more moody.  I had a lot of trouble in the first few weeks, but that's only because  I was trying to change too quickly.  If you start out slow, the mood swings won't be as bad.

Actually, I'm feeling very moody right now, and it still feels better than what I felt back when I was more masculine.  Now I'll get cranky or depressed, at the very worst.  That's the extent to my negative emotions, now.  Several months ago, the "low end" to my emotions would have been rage or aggression.

Being moody isn't necessarily a bad thing if you learn how to manage it.  Even my worst days of being moody are often the same or even better than my best days of pre-transition.  That tells you exactly how WRONG testosterone was for me.

QuoteI also kind of feel like I need to push myself into the point of no return so I can get the strength to keep going and not hide out so much.

"Only he who has drunk the water knows whether it is cool or warm." - Zen saying

Just like the Zen saying above suggests, sometimes you have to drink the water.  You can't just stare at it forever.  If you feel like you need to try something, you should do it.  But don't forget the Hendrix moderation:

"A mystic is a diver who can swim.  A schizophrenic is a diver who can't.  If you go too far out of your depth, you drown.  If you never go out of your depth at all, you never learn how to swim." - Howard V. Hendrix, Better Angels

Quote from: Eve of ChaosI am 100% sure that I want to be a girl, what I am not so sure of is if I can handle life if I dont pass to 95% of people.

That might change.  Even though I feel essentially genderless, I've noticed that my transition experiment has made me feel more "girly" for lack of a better word.  I've done a few things that i wouldn't have done pre-transition, and I've also changed my mindset about certain things.

A very intelligent person on another forum was talking about this effect.  She said there is the men's science and the women's science.  Men's science is about mechanics and predictability.  Women's science is about adaptability and results.  I've found, just like her, that as I began my transition process I began losing concern for the "men's science" in favor of the women's science.  I stopped caring about knowing every little detail of transition, and instead I starting taking everything in the moment and started using more relative measures to judge my transition which were less based on timing and predictability.

The same thing could happen to you.  All of the stuff you find important now, could change.  I know you worry a lot about passing and about finding a way to make the body as female as possible.  But if transition begins to FEEL right to you, I promise that it will be harder for you to obsess about those things.  My transition experiment has significantly affected me emotionally in ways I could not have predicted before all of this.  It feels really good to feel more female, and to not be plagued my masculine libido.  Sometimes, these things are much more important than what the body looks like, or how quickly I am changing, or other things which I thought would be important before I began my experiment.

How I think about transition has changed a lot over the last two months.  The same thing could happen to you.  Try not to put too much obsession on the thoughts you are having now, because those thoughts could change.

Quote from: rejennyratedMy very good friend in the UK Dr Russell Ried was a big proponent of the idea of using an early exposure to low dosage anti androgens and hormones to sort out those for whom the idea of being famale was some sort of sexually driven fetish from those for whom it was indeed a matter of total identity need. The idea is that the HRT removes the male libido and thus anyone for whom this is mainly just a sexual fantasy will not like what happens and will stop before they do themselves any harm.

I agree with this totally.  I was a classic  ->-bleeped-<- case.  Most of my transgendered thoughts from the age of 12-22 were of a sexual nature.  It was only after that when I began to think of gender and try to work through all of my feelings.

As my male sex drive reduced and my "female" drive increased, it became much easier to focus on what I wanted out of transition.  Yes, I had to adjust to the emotional changes.  Yes, I'm going to have to deal with social judgments when I eventually come out to everybody.  But transition still feels right to me.

If someone had some false ideas of what it means to be female, I'm sure that a couple of months of HRT would bring that to the surface very quickly.  If someone's  ->-bleeped-<- was tied to their male sex drive, I'm sure they would absolutely hate how hormones would make them feel.

Some European therapists use HRT as a means of confirming diagnosis.

If you are happy with the effects, which may be both physical and mental, after a few months then you may well progress to full transition.

Caroline

OT, but bless you Cindy. Turning 40 and what happened around that event has left me feeling a bit old.

As for the topic at hand, I used to worry that my transition was about a sexual turn on. However all that has shifted on HRT. My male libido is pretty much gone and I don't miss it. I know that what I want is to be female in all senses of the word, emotionally, physically and yes sexually too. I find that those male things that used to not bother me to much, like my mustache shadow and remaining masculine features, are starting to bother me more and more. I like relating to people as a woman and being related to in that way. It feels good. I wouldn't want to go back to my male dreary experience for anything.

Hey, I thought exactly the same. I've only been on HRT for 10 days and my male sex drive has dropped to zero. When I get in bed the first thing I notice is that I start my sleep "routine" cough!! But I soon lose interest in myself and I couldn't care less! I turn over and go to sleep with a smile bigger then I have ever had on my face! I've never felt so happy and am sure that I chosen the right path. I would never have thought that the results of my "trial" would be so convincing.

Quote from: RachelH on February 17, 2011, 11:08:23 AM
Hey, I thought exactly the same. I've only been on HRT for 10 days and my male sex drive has dropped to zero.

Yeah.  I never really minded the "downstairs" area too much.  But one thing that always drove me crazy was random erections and night emissions.  I'm glad to say that I can't even remember how many weeks it has been since I have experienced either.

Seriously, the lack of male libido has been the best part of my transition.  I can actually focus on doing something without "the guy" always popping up to say hello.

I started on a really low dosage and it just confirmed what i already knew.

I have been afraid that I wouldn't feel any different than I do now and that I wouldn't get the affirmation that I need from this.

But I think what pebbles aid is exactly whats going to happen, and although I am scared its exciting to think that I can get rid of this doubt.

I kind of dont know where to begin though, my therapist hasn't ever had anyone as young or as early in transition as me, her other tg patients had already been on hormones so she didn't have any doctors me. that and she lives in a different city so if she did have references it would be a struggle.

so I have to find a doctor on my own I guess. and ask them what they need out of an evaluation then let my therapist know.

You *DON'T* have to find a doctor on your own.
Your therapist should be able to recommend one.

A few weeks of spironolactone and lowest-dose E were all it took to prove HRT was for me, even at 50 years of age.   My mind felt clearer and sharper, and my depression lightened.  It's more than two years later now, and I only wish I had done it much, MUCH sooner in my life.

I'm so new to transitioning but I completely agree with Caith, it doesn't take much to become sure that it will be right for you. I've been reading posts for days trying to catch up on information I've denied myself for years. You seem to have the same doubts that I have had for years, especially in your previous posts about looking for perfection. But at some point you will have to take a leap of faith, and you are so much more prepared for starting HRT then I was.

I couldn't convince myself for years, especially after I told two girls, who where my "best friends" in my first year of university, and they laughed at me. It put me off even thinking about transitioning till now. It has set me back years, and has caused a lot of misery. You need to be ready to do it, but sometimes a little jump can bring you much further then you could imagine.

Speak to your therapist, and have faith in what you know. The more you put it off the more you may regret it, and if it isn't right then you can put a line under a confused portion of your life. However if it is right, you will be so grateful with yourself.

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on February 17, 2011, 01:00:42 PM
I have been afraid that I wouldn't feel any different than I do now and that I wouldn't get the affirmation that I need from this.

I find that unlikely.  Of all the people I have talked to on the topic of hormones, there are only a few who didn't notice some kind of changes within the first few weeks.  It seems to be rare to not have any physical or mental effects before the first month is up.