Quote from: Robertina on July 14, 2010, 09:39:57 AMMy childhood dreams were often about Spock or Kirk.

Mine, too. And of course I thought I was the only person on the planet who wished they would just jump into bed already. But then, I also thought of the Hardy Boys as a couple, even though they were brothers.

Quote from: Arch on July 20, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Mine, too. And of course I thought I was the only person on the planet who wished they would just jump into bed already. But then, I also thought of the Hardy Boys as a couple, even though they were brothers.

Have you ever heard of a YouTube show called 'The Ship's Closet'? That person is convinced Kirk and Spock were intended to be a covert gay couple in the 60s, and the evidence she gives is... kinda compelling. 

Quote from: Fenrir on July 21, 2010, 08:29:54 AMThat person is convinced Kirk and Spock were intended to be a covert gay couple in the 60s...

I haven't seen all of her videos; but as I recall, her argument is a lot like Andy Medhurst's argument about Batman. He says that Batman can be read as a gay character because there are sufficient clues and details to allow such a reading. I know that in her first video, what's-her-name of "The Ship's Closet" doesn't say that Kirk and Spock are gay but that they are bisexual...but I don't know if she changes her argument anywhere down the line.

Maybe I'm misremembering. Does she actually say at some point that they were explicitly designed to be a "covert gay couple"? Guess I'll have to watch some more.

Well, I was just watching it one day and thinking 'yeah, I suppose you could see the scene in that way', etc. etc., not really taking it that seriously because c'mon, it was the 60s. I've seen some of the Batman TV series from that era and it's ridiculously camp but I'm not going to take it anywhere near seriously as a kind of covert gay thing because most people just didn't think in that way back then! It was cheesy, that's all there is to it. However, there was this quote from Gene Roddenberry (from an interview in Shatner's biography 'Where No Man...') that she talks about in the second episode that changed my mind:
"Interviewer: There's a great deal of writing in the Star Trek movement which compares the relationship between Alexander and Hephaestion to the relationship between Kirk and Spock- focusing on the closeness of the friendship, the feeling that they would die for one another..."
GR: "Yes, there's certainly some of that- certainly with love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal - we never suggested in the series - physical love between the two. But it's the- we certainly had the feeling that the affection was sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd century."
Make of that what you will. The last sentence of that quote convinced me there was something else going on behind the characters. 

That idea of love goes to David and Jonathan in the old testament as well.

but that kind of love doesn't HAVE to be physical or even romantic. it can also be something like "more than brothers"

anyway, i tend to think that often such charaters and writing were deliberately written with a sort of "easter egg" mentality in which one could not ever actually say, for instance, "Kirk and Spock are a gay couple" BUT there was room for the diligent observer, if he were so inclined, to "read into" the story that undertone.

That is, clues if you want them to be clues but otherwise merely random bits of noise.


Perhaps the most obvious bit of this sort of business was the way a lot of Wonder Woman comics had images and themes that could imply female bondage fetishes were being played to.

My best friend and I call each other brothers and we live together.  We are more than friends, and since we are best friends, we are more than brothers.  We don't have a sexual relationship, but we are very close.  Although he is younger, he is more like my older brother, and I'm more like his sister. 

Anyway, there are lots of youtube mock videos about gay relationships on the different Star Trek shows, even Wesley and Piccard on TNG. 

Something is not right about the world now, with no Star Trek show running - only reruns!  I even joined a startrek group on Second Life - but have not been there for a long time.

Robertina, I'm like that with my best friend. Even though right now its more like a brother/brother relationship, he just can't wait till it becomes a brother/sister relationship.

He doesn't share my love for star trek though but he does about other sci-fi series. So I'm happy with that.

Yeah, he doesn't even know what Star Trek is or like science fiction really.  He just likes action stuff, so maybe he would if there was a lot of action and little dialogue (he has trouble with English).  Yet, we have many other common interests.

I love Star Trek, especially TNG, followed by DS9 and Voyager.

Here's a funny commercial for TNG that I used to see all the time as a kid.

Quote from: Fenrir on July 21, 2010, 12:14:37 PM
I've seen some of the Batman TV series from that era and it's ridiculously camp but I'm not going to take it anywhere near seriously as a kind of covert gay thing because most people just didn't think in that way back then!

You really have to go all the way back to the comic books, and read Wertham, to see it all. And most people wouldn't have to think along those lines...only the creator if he had a bit of wish-fulfillment fantasy. Of course, it was almost certainly a fantasy about male bonding or father-son relationships, not gay ones. But people can get out of it whatever they please.

I started watching Voyager a few years ago but got distracted. I picked it back up a few months ago, then went onto TNG, then DS9, then Enterprise, and now I'm working my way through TOS. I've seen all the movies too.
I was almost as afraid to be a real geek when I was a kid as was afraid to be a girl, so now I have a lot of catching up to do.

Live Long and Prosper, the orginal series here

Me too.
I got most of the original series on VHS tapes.
I know them by heart.
Jillieann

Yep... count me in...

If only Gene Roddenberry was allowed to enforce a new world order rather than the bl##dy-bleeding Bilderberg group and industrio/finance/militia corprotocracy bunch that we currently have in charge.... eh....?

I really enjoyed too the latest movie (JJ Abrams) showing James Tiberius Kirk's rise to command performance helm seat stature.... with all the key characters in their junior variants...great casting... there will be 2 more using the same team hopefully? 2012...before the next one will hit the big screens...

But for my personal fave trekkie role model....I always come back to Chief Science Officer...



Jadzia Dax...

Though I also loved too 7-of-9.....for her uber-kool blonde intel-efficiency...



I guess I'll always have a soft-spot for those damn sassy uber-boffin geeky-gals with fearless can do attitude...?

who didn't like 7-0f-9
as for the new star wars movie with vulcans in it I wasn't impressed

I've been watching Deep Space Nine.  I must say that I really like the character of Odo and also the one of Jadzia Dax.

I also always liked Major Kira.  The actress is perfect for the part.

Huge Star Trek fan here :-D

I tend to think Voyager is HIGHLY underrated.

And while the new film was good, this whole "alternate timeline" thing is pretty unacceptable to me.

Quote from: Scarlett86 on February 17, 2011, 01:04:08 AM
And while the new film was good, this whole "alternate timeline" thing is pretty unacceptable to me.

It's not really a new phenomenon.  Timetravel has been abused way too many times in the Star Trek universe, particularly in the feature films.  Think about it, ALL of the movies based on TNG had time as a major theme:

1)  Generations:  Kirk gets caught in the Nexus, where he is found later by Picard.
2)  First Contact:  The Borg travel back in time to assimilate Earth, and the Enterprise must stop them.
3)  Insurrection:  the crew of the Enterprise must protect a culture whose environment delays the progression of aging.
4)  Nemesis:  Picard must stop the warlord Praetor Shinzon, who is essentially a younger version of himself.

Since no-one's mentioned it here, I assume you don't know about Star Trek Phase II? It's a group of professional fans in "the business" who are putting together non-profit episodes of the Original Series in its fourth season that never got made, using some parts of the old unaired scripts, new actors (and some of the original ones too, which is so cool) with some of the original sets etc. The first couple of episodes are a bit shaky as they try too hard for self-conscious cheesiness, but once it warms up, it's really well done, I think.

Check out especially the two-parter, Blood and Fire, which has (finally!) a gay storyline - which I won't spoil for you .

As for me, I've always loved TOS and TNG, but stopped there because I didn't have any more room in my head for new characters. Of the films, my favourite has always been Generations - which never fails to make me weep like a baby. And I've always been in love with young Pavel Chekov .

as to the whole alternate timeline thing, I've argued from the time that "Enterprise" was announced that we'd best all assume that "First contact" altered the timeline, so that Enterprise doesn't occur in the same timestream as TOS flowed from, and that it's THAT timestream which is altered AGAIN in the latest movie.

so that AbramsTrek is actually two steps removed from the "original" (to us) time stream.

(and that's if you don't count the time-stream interventions in STIV, and every one of the previous series)