Quote from: CindyJames on March 05, 2011, 05:36:08 AM
My posts are not anti-tattoo but caution people who think to have them.

I understand your point.  And yes people do get faddish tattoos, there are a number of people, for example, who now unknowingly sport Irish gang tattoos and should be very careful should they ever vist Ireland.  score one for not getting a tattoo just becuase it looks cool.  Same for the fad of tramp stamps.

However, I can think of a number of career fields, mainstream career fields, that a tattoo is the price of admission more or less.  Many military members have them, firefighters have pages and pages dedicated to tattoos, meanwhile most bikers any more are doctors and lawyers.  Sure "sleeves" might not get you hired on at IBM (and I'm not 100% sure about that either), but I'm sure Google would love it.

At the core, what we're doing is body modification, and just like I would strongly encourage anyone here to fully educate themselves, I would say the same thing about getting tattoo.

Quote from: CindyJames on March 05, 2011, 03:16:01 AM
Dear Imadique,

I am very happy to explore this, I'm very happy to improve my life and my attitude to people. If I have been disrespectful, please show me where. Where is the hypocrisy? What part of another person presenting to advertise hurt, torture and abuse of people is acceptable?

Cindy

Cindy,

I can't help but ask you to re-read my post (10 times won't be necessary ) and notice I did not make any statement that even resembles supporting the notion highlighted in your quote above, all I did was point out that some people wear swastikas for completely innocent reasons - usually an interest in Eastern religions. I'm sure your interview subject could very well have been a head stomping fascist in his spare time, who knows - not the point. It was a side note to the main point I was trying to make which hasn't been debated by anyone so far about people attitudes to tattoos mirroring, to some degree, attitudes to trans people and your quote was highlighted because it had sentiments in it that are often held by people in regards to transitioning. To me, that is a hypocrisy.

- Sally

P.S: anyone who has extensive work done is not going to be worried about the complications in getting them removed, bikers and gangs are not really my area of expertise but I don't see how they are relevant to the average person wanting to express themselves.

Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 05:45:24 AM
That unfortunately is no different then the Confederate Flag, only becuase of the evil things it was used to represent AFTER the Civil War.  But I've used that reference point many times, the swastika was around long before the Nazis.

Interestingly enough, now that you've reminded me, I was fairly political at one point (who isn't in their early 20s).  I had this idead for a pink triangle on the inside of my wrist, it wasn't as bold as tattooing numbers but I wanted to send the same message.  I never did get that tattoo...

I don't disagree, it will never be accepted in western culture regardless of the intentions of the wearer.

I think it was the comment about tattoos being a fad that stung. All mine have some meaning to me beyond just looking cool. The dragon on my shoulders represents me, the space invaders on my arm my place in the world and the star i just got on my wrist, well that was to mark going full time, so i doubt i need to explain that.

I think the point Imadique was trying to make was universally dismissing tattoos in such a manner echos and mirrors the way some anti-trans activists proclaim the whole trans thing is merely a cultural phenomonon and a trend...dismissing our experiences wholesale.

Quote from: CindyJames on March 04, 2011, 01:48:36 AM
I
As Tekla pointed out it is a fad. I think maybe coming out of cable shows such as LA Ink etc. While I appreciate the artwork involved, and the pain tolerance  the person has, the large 'arty' tattoos are probably unable to be removed by any laser technology currently available, so if someone wants them removed they would be looking at skin grafts, and big ones at that.

But people do weird stuff without thinking through the consequences.

I acknowledge that this remark may have been better stated but I think it is (essentially) true.  Again it does not state any opinion beyond personal choice. As for large artwork tattoos  being a fad, how can they not be? They have only started in the last few years. Again calling something a fad is not insulting it. It's a comment on it's occurrence in a historical sense. In Victorian times women used bustles to emphasise their  hips, in later years woman wore short skirts to show off their legs. Currently in my part of the world girls have a uniform of very short cut off shorts, made to look like stressed denim. They are fads; but they are not permanent. My pierced ears are a fad, if I remove the rings they will disappear. Tattoos will not.

Again can I totally and completely reiterate.   I'm not against tattoos. I don't like them so I will not have them. If you like them, have them. It is your choice.

My discussion on this topic is finished.


Cindy

I would argue that the following website http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html disproves that:

1.  Tattoos are a recent fad
2.  Large surface area tattoos are a recent fad.
3.  Until recently tattoos were a part of a criminal fringe.

I won't waste space on the forum further.  Click on the link if you choose to.

Quote from: LightBulbs on March 05, 2011, 09:55:45 AM
I cant stand tatoos on the arms, neck or upper back/chest area. Lower back is trashy but OK, feet, hips etc can be OK if theyre symmetrical.

The worst though are dramatic eyebrows (surprised look) or overdone eyeliner, because theyre the hardest to remove if you dont want to lose any hair.

Funniest would be people names, especially after you fall out with them. 

Rule of thumb is to never get names of someone living unless they are children. The only name I have on me is my mom's name and that is as a remembrance of her murder. I do believe that anyone who gets a tattoo should think about it and research they whys of why they want one. It's no different than when someone who is asking about taking the path of an FTM or MTF asks me if it's the right choice for them. I can't answer that but if they are thinking about it they should do the research be aware of all the challenges that potentially could face them. I've never regretted mine and I will probably get more.

I've been told that being an FTM is a fad. Seriously. Both of these aren't fads. They are ways of existence for people.

Quote from: Imadique on March 05, 2011, 07:57:56 AM
Cindy,

I can't help but ask you to re-read my post (10 times won't be necessary ) and notice I did not make any statement that even resembles supporting the notion highlighted in your quote above, all I did was point out that some people wear swastikas for completely innocent reasons - usually an interest in Eastern religions. I'm sure your interview subject could very well have been a head stomping fascist in his spare time, who knows - not the point. It was a side note to the main point I was trying to make which hasn't been debated by anyone so far about people attitudes to tattoos mirroring, to some degree, attitudes to trans people and your quote was highlighted because it had sentiments in it that are often held by people in regards to transitioning. To me, that is a hypocrisy.

- Sally
My apologies Sally I mis-read your post. I have in practice been fascinated at times about the  use of symbols, the swastika with reversed 'feet' is regarded as a sacred symbol.  Sadly people use symbols to quickly enforce fear.

JMO
Cindy

Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
http://www.designboom.com/history/tattoo_history.html

Very interesting read. 

Quote from: Andy8715 on March 05, 2011, 02:28:05 PM
Very interesting read.

I found it quite interesting, I would have ended up cutting and pasting almost the whole thing by the time I got done reading it.

I think tattoos are cool but better off in places that can be hidden if someone wants a career that is a "business suit" type job. That's not to say I think they shouldn't have them there but society tends to see tattoos on the neck of someone in a business suit to be irresponsible so companies are leery of hiring them. Otherwise get what you want. I'm not a fan of tons of tattoos myself but they are beautiful works of art in my opinion and if the person wants them then go for it

Personally my mom has two of them, both able to be hidden by average clothing or medium length hair. One on her chest near her heart and one on the back of her neck. For me I won't get one because I'm afraid of needles. I'd love to get a chest piece done or something on my upper arm as celebration once I have completed my transition (gotten top surgery). Also it would be a sign of finally working through my biggest fear (needles).

I'm also planning on getting a chest tattoo after top surgery.  Well thinking very hard about it but not certain I will get the tattoo.

Quote from: Andy8715 on March 05, 2011, 02:51:39 PM
I'm also planning on getting a chest tattoo after top surgery.  Well thinking very hard about it but not certain I will get the tattoo.

I've had that same thought, too. I was originally going to get it across my shoulders but realized no one would ever see it.
What're you thinking of (if I can be annoying and nosy)?

Quote from: tekla on March 04, 2011, 08:25:41 AM
Assumptions based on our own likes and dislikes are dubious and even potentially harmful

True that, on the other hand, trusting people with swastika tats is almost always a bad idea, and if you are - like Cindy is - in a position of responsibility it's never going to be worth the risk.  And hey, me too on that.  I work in show biz.  You know how many Jewish people work in show biz?  I could never hire the person.

Yeah. Swastika tats are a no-go, period, no ifs, ands, or buts, I would never trust someone with swastika tats enough to hire them for anything.

(Those who have genuine changes of heart should be wearing long sleeves, and band-aids to cover ones on face/neck, until they can get them removed or covered up. Swastikas are just something you don't walk around showing unless you actively want to associate yourself with Nazis.)

Re: tattoos in general though...I don't think there's anything wrong with them, honestly. Some people do seem to get them without really understanding what "permanent" means (lots of guys I served with in the military, who stumbled drunkenly down to a tattoo parlor to get an EGA on their shoulder in a peculiar self-imposed initiation ritual, probably wish they'd put a bit more thought and creativity into design/placement) but on the whole I think they're fine.

I'll almost certainly be getting a chest tattoo after surgery; I'm generally not a fan of tattoos on me, but you can't really beat them as a scar coverup. And I do think chest tats are kind of hot.

I don't mind tattoos, and I see people with them in pretty much all lines of work over here, but I'd never get one myself because I'm majoring in Japanese, and therefore intend to spend time in Japan sporadically throughout the rest of my life, and over there, having a tattoo is a major no-no - it links you to the Yakuza.

Quote from: kyril on March 05, 2011, 07:36:45 PM
Re: tattoos in general though...I don't think there's anything wrong with them, honestly. Some people do seem to get them without really understanding what "permanent" means (lots of guys I served with in the military, who stumbled drunkenly down to a tattoo parlor to get an EGA on their shoulder in a peculiar self-imposed initiation ritual, probably wish they'd put a bit more thought and creativity into design/placement) but on the whole I think they're fine.

Most tattoo artists I'm aware of won't tattoo someone "under the influence".  Though I guess there's always the exception...

Tattoos have been rather popular for various reasons... Usually for some kind of belonging to some group or other... But I just like the artwork of a particular style

I've never had one and doubt I could ever afford to get any... But I've often dreamed of getting a variety of butterflies, flowers, some ocean waves and maybe a few other creatures about my bum and bikini area

It would have to be awhile after SRS for some of it and no-one would know but a few close friends and a special someone who manages to get my nickers off anyway 

Quote from: N.Chaos on March 05, 2011, 06:45:58 PM
I've had that same thought, too. I was originally going to get it across my shoulders but realized no one would ever see it.
What're you thinking of (if I can be annoying and nosy)?

No idea actually,  just really want to do it.  I really like old flash style tattoos so probably something with those but I want it all to blend together and not just be a bunch of random pieces. 

Don't like them;

Quote from: regan on March 05, 2011, 05:45:24 AM

Interestingly enough, now that you've reminded me, I was fairly political at one point (who isn't in their early 20s).  I had this idead for a pink triangle on the inside of my wrist, it wasn't as bold as tattooing numbers but I wanted to send the same message.  I never did get that tattoo...

I'm 22 and not-at-all political.

Anyway, I don't mind tattoos (but I'm biased and have one....In two hours I'm going to go to the tattoo shop and get my dog's name tattooed on my ankle) for the most part.  Some I have no idea why the person got them, but I'm not that person so I really don't need to know.