How many people have lied and said they were intersexed?  The thought has crossed my mind.  It seems easier to point to known science than to take on the stigmatized trans role. It's not like anyone checks your medical records.

but is it a lie, or just a stretch of accepted definition?

I personally feel it's wrong to usurp the social plight of inter-sexed people they have unique social and emotional requirements separate to transpepole.

I'm not ignorant of why it's tempting cis-people are often EXTREMELY hetero-normative and sharp in there blind faith of completely defined gender binaries, And we are attacked for the idea of "becoming" the other and compromising those labels in there mind
Of course it's desirable for us to leave off that craptastic line of attack if you could claim you were intersexed to start thus arn't really threatening there idea of "male and female" with any action of your own.

But if you do It's kinda no better than the kind of crap we're subjected to when glued into the in the GLB grouping stuff Where we're first to be thrown into the fire having issues were subjected to used as tokens for the more dominant groups to push their own agenda through on.

And really is that a good thing to do? I mean you'd only be pandering to there bigoted belief that your only a male or female only and your transition justified on that believe is just a way of affirming that binary thinking.

Also consider, A fair number of intersex people are content in there assigned gender but might have difficulties these individuals needs are drastically different from our own, It's only those who fall into the same category as us (Discontent) that we have much in common with.

But yeah it's not an easy thing to say and I'm not trying to play a victim as an excuse but politics and intellectual points like those become irrelevant when your immediate explanation for what the hell you are supposed to be in a bigots mind is the only thing between a life and a knife in the gut.

Quote from: LordKAT on March 08, 2011, 02:09:08 AM
but is it a lie, or just a stretch of accepted definition?

Well..the lie would happen when people asked about specifics and you'd have to talk PAIS or something.   

I do not like being trans. I know I was "born this way" and have questioned why I'm not a girl from as early as I understood there was a difference.  I feel let down by science.   Figure this stuff out!  Why do I have to have such a ->-bleeped-<-ty life despite having such a great life.  A life of pain without sympathy.

Pebbles makes many valid points.

My only observation is that as research continues into the causes of being trans the evidence is slowly but steadily mounting that in some cases at least the two conditions are related and hence there is some crossover.

In any case we are talking about identity here and to reduce that to merely what genes you carry is rather to ignore and belittle any concepts of the mind. We are not just a body. We do also have a personality a mind, some might even say a spirit or a soul etc.

The irony is if you were like me, you could grow up believing yourself to be trans, only to later discover, when treatment is all over, that you were technically intersexed.

Even though I did not know this at the time that I was being treated, I now understand that it did affect the way that I approached things. For example I have to agree with Pebbles that some of the motivation is subtly different.

Personally I think that perhaps you should perhaps worry less about the label and more about just being yourself.

Quote from: japple on March 08, 2011, 03:06:44 AM
Well..the lie would happen when people asked about specifics and you'd have to talk PAIS or something.   

I do not like being trans. I know I was "born this way" and have questioned why I'm not a girl from as early as I understood there was a difference.  I feel let down by science.   Figure this stuff out!  Why do I have to have such a ->-bleeped-<-ty life despite having such a great life.  A life of pain without sympathy.

I know I hate having to be a transsexual too... A fair chunk share those thoughts.

Then The question is who are you lying to??
The bigots who are gonna hunt you down?
Or yourself?

Without begin honest with YOURSELF there is little point in transitioning. As that's the only thing that can make it worthwhile.
Honestly I thought I was intersexed when I was a young teen knowing about these conditions long ago even doing some crude experiments on myself showing me up as "Normal"
It's only after awhile you realize that it dosen't matter if your intersexed or not your still gonna feel the same way and it's not right and dishonest to use it as justification for your feelings.

Hi. 

Well i dont have to so,   

i have been told that those of us are not accepted so well in the U S..not totaly sure why ,

tho if we are different then i do understand .

see your getting in to my play ground . im not transsexual never saw my self that way , not when you think both male / female & at the same time  so yea its not a big deal tho i wonder why you do . i mean i cant help the way i am . tho im accepted as a person & then as a woman. just im that mix of both.

As a point can you & i talk about what its like  & do we relate with each other & know what its like for us being the way we are. you see there are some differences.


...noeleena....

Being intersex doesnt justify transition. And in fact by lying about your condition you might be making things harder for those that are truly IS.

Actually depending where you live and wanting to transition and being IS makes things harder or even impossible.

Quote from: rejennyrated on March 08, 2011, 03:18:55 AM
Personally I think that perhaps you should perhaps worry less about the label and more about just being yourself.

I've thought about this a few times today.

I'm not going to lie to anyone.

Quote from: rejennyrated on March 08, 2011, 03:18:55 AM
We are not just a body. We do also have a personality a mind, some might even say a spirit or a soul etc.

I think that this is the critical issue underlying it all. I am not this body, but that single sentence is more than many people can understand. I find that crudely funny the way many people act like they believe in the Divine, souls, and an afterlife at least to some degree. True there's no hard proof of it, but then software doesn't physically exist either, it's just manifested in the patterns of electrons in a computer.

As far as intersex, that is really just a word, so it relies on a definition. If you want to use your own definition instead of someone else's fine, but I don't because it's still reducing and oversimplifying what we really are. It also propagates the binary gender model, which we know is grossly incorrect.

Quote from: japple on March 08, 2011, 01:47:41 AM
How many people have lied and said they were intersexed?  The thought has crossed my mind.  It seems easier to point to known science than to take on the stigmatized trans role. It's not like anyone checks your medical records.

By the time someone is willing to "lie" and say they are intersexed, usually they've already convinced themselves they are.

EDIT:  Oh, and if they haven't convince themselves yet, you can bet your bottom they soon will.   Nothing like a little cognitive dissonance to urge along true self-deception.

When I came out some people assumed I was intersexed, so I just let them think that.  Part of me thinks there is that possibility due to abnormal anatomy but never officially diagnosed.


Jay

Quote from: japple on March 08, 2011, 03:06:44 AMI feel let down by science.   Figure this stuff out!

Biochemistry is extremely complicated.  Only a madman would study it.

I don't think I would ever bluntly say that I was interesexed without further explanation.  That would give people the wrong idea due to the historical usage of the term.  Considering the concept that 'intersexed' is based on though, I question whether the exclusion of trans individuals is entirely appropriate.  Gonads are not the only organs that are effected by the processes of sexual development which could cause one to find themselves with characteristics that are 'between sexes.'   So my argument would be that the rather broad term "intersexed" has been used historically to describe only some people who are 'between sexes.'   Whether the term should be made more inclusive, or the current group delineated more specifically/precisely, I think are valid questions that should be considered. 
.
So I guess if you're going to bring up the word "intersexed", I'd say definitely *don't* use it as a dodge.  That would definitely be dishonest, misleading, and could cause you some trouble if someone calls you on it.  If, however, you define the context, I think it's a word that can be mentioned, as long as you're willing to discuss it intelligently with others.
.
At best, I could say that TS is or can be a FORM of intersex, due to some rather recent research into certain specific cases.  But I'd also have to admit that definite proof is still a bit beyond the current limits of our medical science.  I personally know it's not all just in my head.  But if the only way medical science can prove that is with an autopsy of my brain, I think I'll pass on that, and just live as myself anyway. 

I've found it helpful to explain the situation to people who need to know without really using any term to describe it. I just describe the ideas and what it means for them, without attributing a name to it. This lets people focus on the ideas rather than terminology, which is especially helpful when the terminology may be linked in their minds to certain media stereotypes.

This only seems appealing because generally people are so misinformed about trans people that it's easier to "blame" it on something you "can't control". In no way do I think being trans is something that can be controlled or that it has something that can be blamed for (obviously), it's just an easier thing for people to grasp. But some people are so behind they have never even heard the word intersexed before.

Still, I don't think I could lie about it because people actually are and I have no idea what that is like. I live in a new city since I've transitioned and have no reason to out myself. Though if I needed to I think I would say something like "I used to live as a woman". Because I think if I say something such as "I was born female sexed" they would probably jump right to "so you're a girl" and it would be frustrating. Even though I felt wrong pre-transition, I still lived as a woman; I socially interacted as one, had a female name, went by female pronouns, etc. I feel better having people think "you used to be a girl and are now a boy" vs. "so you have a vagina and therefore you're a  girl".

I haven't had to deal with this situation yet but always wondered how that would work out.

You could always tell people you got stung by a bee.

Isn't the brain one of our more major organs? My brain is female, but other parts of my body were otherwise. Isn't this the classic definition of IS?

Why do we focus on the gonads so much? Why do other types of IS people 'own' the condition?

Just asking....

That is how I see it Julie. Some odd things downstairs but the brain part alone says you have physical aspects of both sexes making it an intersex thing. So why is it a lie?