Nope, this is no Monty Python's sketch , but a question to all of you:

Should we use the word "->-bleeped-<-" in a dignifying, positive way?

I'd like to ask this question for two reasons:

First, I have read somewhere that gays and lesbians succeeded in changing the former pejorative connotation of the word "gay" over the last decades. If they hadn't appropriated the initially negative word "gay", this word would still be used as an insult today.

Second, It may be best if we claim that word before we, as a community growing in number and visibility, begin to be referred to more and more often by that word in some tabloid media or talk-shows and even by people at large (whereby I've heard different connotations). If we let others use the word exclusively, they'll be also making its meaning. I've seen media articles in which "->-bleeped-<-" is used in a way which is not directly disrespectful, but in a kind of jocular and somewhat belittling way, as referring to a person who is a kind of circus attraction and has no life or personality other than "changing his/her sex". So precisely to avoid that.

Note: I am not saying that we should not use worlds like "transsexual/transgender woman/men", "transwoman" "TGirl" or "transman/-guy" anymore. On more formal occasions (ie outing at work) I would never refer myself to as a "->-bleeped-<-",but among friends or in more colloquial situations I wonder if we should not claim and "reconquer" that word for our own good. And I am asking you all because I am not completely sure of my stance on this question.

so... Thoughts?

Personally, I dislike the word ->-bleeped-<-. It's along the lines -- to me -- as ->-bleeped-<-got. It's used more often as derogatory and demeaning. I've seen it used often as a code word for porn and such. I think that we have enough acceptable words out there to use to describe ourselves, particularly male and female. (e.g., I am a male. Period.)

Hi Linus,

indeed, I am female and that's it. Period. But I am not/won't be able to live in stealth modus (and I might never want to), and I ask myself the following questions:

The people around me will need some time to readjust to my new social gender. Friends and coworkers will know about my being trans. Personally, I  don't know whether I am able to impose a politically correct language on everyone around me and in every situation. So If the ->-bleeped-<- word comes out, I don't know if the best thing to do is to try and "defuse" that word by dignifying it. One day, though, I'll be just be one of the girls and only once in a while remembered to have been the transwoman in the pack. However, although we can play a big part on this, we are not always in the position to accelerate this "assimilation process". Realistically.

Cheers mate!

  Words cannot describe how much I despise the use of that term.

  It's especially troubling  when a Transsexual person uses it in reference to her/himself.... it's like they've given up on any sense of identity other than being Transgender.

   I know a post-op gender therapist in my group who uses it all the time and suggests that, by my refusal to acknowledge the term, I'm trying to set myself apart from other transfolks.. "C'mon, Jess... we're all tr****s," she'll say, and laugh.....   I don't understand how that's helpful at all.

  Maybe some are comfortable with it but I think we would be doing an injustice to ourselves by embracing an epithet.

Quote from: JessicaR on March 15, 2011, 09:15:06 AM
   I know a post-op gender therapist in my group who uses it all the time and suggests that, by my refusal to acknowledge the term, I'm trying to set myself apart from other transfolks.. "C'mon, Jess... we're all tr****s," she'll say, and laugh.....   I don't understand how that's helpful at all.

Interesting, that's not the situation in which I would expect the ->-bleeped-<- word to be used. Although, I have heard it used by transfolk in some intelligent ways, for instance, to criticize some stereotypes about TS/TGs. I know usage of the term can differ a lot and the world itself poses a problem. That's why I posted the topic. 

For me it depends on how the word is used and who's using it... I see it as equivalent to black people calling each other the 'n' word, but if a white person calls them that it's offensive.  I've called myself a ->-bleeped-<- before, I have gay friends who call each other ->-bleeped-<- or dyke, etc.  I'm all for taking back offensive words.  It's really only when they are deliberately used to insult that they bother me.

Quote from: Sylvester on March 15, 2011, 09:28:44 AM
For me it depends on how the word is used and who's using it... I see it as equivalent to black people calling each other the 'n' word, but if a white person calls them that it's offensive.  I've called myself a ->-bleeped-<- before, I have gay friends who call each other ->-bleeped-<- or dyke, etc.  I'm all for taking back offensive words.  It's really only when they are deliberately used to insult that they bother me.

That's a really good point, I think.
It also reminds me of hearing one Tgirl commenting on the usual difficulties of transition, giving a sigh and saying "oh, you know, ->-bleeped-<- life"

Quote from: Valeriedances on March 15, 2011, 09:37:28 AM
I've had that word used against me recently (3 months ago) while on a date, by a man who was shocked when I outed myself to him and used it in a hurtful, angry way ...as he couldnt stand the idea that he was attracted to a ts person. When moments before he was infatuated full of desire and all sugar and spice. How could anyone be okay with this word? I had to run away from him, in fear of my life.

I think I would feel the same as you about the word if I had been in your skin.
Regarding your experience, I hope the wound heals soon and you have more luck with a partner next time.
Huggs,
Alice

The word itself came out of the community.  It was our word, one that was meant to be inclusive - so its easy to see why so many people in here dislike it.

Quote from: Valeriedances on March 15, 2011, 09:47:16 AM
Thanks Alice, you are sweet.

Hey Val, you haven't seen me when *craving* like a monster for the HRT-prescriptions: no sweetness there, only "give the f****** thing to me now!" But yeah, I'm "sweetening" and very happy so    (sorry about the off-topic)

Quote from: tekla on March 15, 2011, 09:46:42 AM
The word itself came out of the community.  It was our word, one that was meant to be inclusive - so its easy to see why so many people in here dislike it.

I did not know that fact for sure. Any infos about how and when it all started?

Quote from: tekla on March 15, 2011, 09:46:42 AM
It was our word, one that was meant to be inclusive - so its easy to see why so many people in here

Well, I do understand. Beyond other reasons like the experience told by Valerie above, it's definitely a problem of word appropriation and connotation. The word may have been ours, but if others have used it more often with negative meanings, as I fear, that would explain a lot.

The question is whether we would be able to regain its original meaning. Would that be realistic?
Another question is that regaining the word might be strategically necessary in order to defuse its potential as offence and insult. Better use the word ourselves and have a chance at determining its meaning that only have others use it. But I am not sure about the first question: is it possible?

I don't care for the word "Tran...". The first time I was told that I was transgender I was shocked. I feel it is like calling someone with a low IQ retarded. I guess labels me a lot to society. I like GID or intersexed.

The longest running trans event in the Bay Area is ->-bleeped-<-shack (not your dad's drag show) started in 1996, but half a decade before that a lady named Carla runs Carla's Salon, had been being called the '->-bleeped-<- Mechanic" since the early 90s.  That would date the use of the world then to the late 1980s, or about the beginning of normal (not geeks, nerds or DoE/DoD types) using the net.

Also, the group in the San Jose area goes by Silicon Valley ->-bleeped-<- (SVT).

I personally wouldn't use it for myself and I wouldn't call other people it. I prefer not to be called it because of the negative connotation. But overall, I'm not offended by it. It takes a lot to offend me and I'm a pretty relaxed person. I just wouldn't take it too personally and I would ignore it if the word was said with intent to harm.

I don't like the word, and I have friends who are trans who use it to describe themselves and I don't like how I am often grouped into it.

I hope this makes sense, I am trying to think of how to explain this but the only time I ever use it to talk about myself I am also rolling my eyes about it. Like "they just think of me as some ->-bleeped-<-" or "I don't want them to think I am just a ->-bleeped-<-".

I don't think it's a positive word. I think people who are trans who use it like to make a big statement about themsevles, shoving it in people's faces, which that itself is what makes people uncomfortable. And that's not really for me. I am not a trans person, I am a person who happens to be trans. :-/

Though, people who aren't trans who use it, that's obviously offensive with or without any justification.

I try not to offened personally because otherwise I feel like I am spending most of my life getting offended by everything. There is just so much you can do about it.

I don't care for the term and find it derogatory

the word has too many negative connotations to ever be redeemed to something even remotely dignified. As Sylvester said, it's like the "n" word in that respect.

Wasn't going to post to this, but just wanted to say to Valerie I'm so sorry that happened to you. It was that moron's loss. I'm just glad you're okay.

I think we should discourage the use of this very insulting word.

The word is offensive and should not be used by anyone.

Trying to reclaim the word for ourselves can only work for so long, before it backfires back to us. Other people may think if we use it ourselves then its Ok to use it as well. i don't personally believe that such a word can be empowering in an way, much like the N word, it is still offensive, the more you use such words the more it becomes acceptable to the general public.

Quote from: Marvel on March 16, 2011, 01:01:50 AMmuch like the N word, it is still offensive, the more you use such words the more it becomes acceptable to the general public.

I assume you mean "->-bleeped-<-" which actually came from Niger where "nigu" meant god and "niga" meant goddess.

I fail to see what is offensive about divinity.