I talked to a kid who has posted near complains about trending(?) FTM. She said something along the line of "many of them are transgendered/transsexual just to be different or attention or for fashion" So I asked her why because it wasn't first time seeing this and I'm thinking is that something have to do with masculinity or fitting into the traditional male stereotype? I didn't ask her more because she didn't sound want to be bothered so.. 

I saw this claim on a seriously transphobic lesbian's blog once. She was making claims that 'perfectly balanced' lesbians were transitioning to men just to fit better into the binary/stereotypes or some bull. Saying they were 'perfectly decent' before and turned into some misogynistic pig after they transitioned and... just a bunch of awful stuff. She was also taking letters from other lesbians claiming trans people were overrunning 'THEIR' clubs and organizations...wtf?

Horrendous people they were =_=

Honestly though, even if it is a trend, I'd agree with caleb. This isn't exactly an easy road. I cannot see a fake traversing it unless they were seriously delusional about themselves o_O

Maybe they see transfolk going to therapy and endos and etc. etc. and they're just jealous of all the "attention" we're getting ?

Semi-serious point I'm making - I know there are documented accounts of men in the UK deliberately becoming HIV+ because they were isolated and/or socially awkward and were attracted to the support network they perceived HIV+ men as having access to.

Most people who don't know trans folk well aren't aware of all the hoops we're made to jump through in order for the doctors and surgeons to be confident that we know why we're doing what we're doing, so it's easy for them to assume you can do this on a whim or as a fashion statement. I notice my friends who aren't cool about this (very few) are either assuming it's just a passing fancy, or at the other extreme, they want to tell me how complicated and difficult it's going to be, because of course I haven't researched it properly(!).

We need to find more ways of educating people without lecturing them.

Ah that is a good point, seems like some cases of Munchausen syndrome and Munchausen by proxy are a perfect example of the mentality and ridiculous lengths some people will go through to get the attention they want/feel they need x_x

Well, and the fact that some people retransition or detransition suggests that some of those are indeed initially getting into it for the wrong reasons.

And there seems to be a strong "feminist" narrative that is pathologically unwilling to see anyone as a woman who wasn't born one biologically, so there's a lot of group conditioning going on, aside from any more mainstream hetero-/gender-normative prejudices.

For perspective, I've heard exactly the same kind of invective among gay men when talking about bisexuals.

Quote from: yoxi on March 23, 2011, 03:58:41 AM
Maybe they see transfolk going to therapy and endos and etc. etc. and they're just jealous of all the "attention" we're getting ?

Semi-serious point I'm making - I know there are documented accounts of men in the UK deliberately becoming HIV+ because they were isolated and/or socially awkward and were attracted to the support network they perceived HIV+ men as having access to.

Most people who don't know trans folk well aren't aware of all the hoops we're made to jump through in order for the doctors and surgeons to be confident that we know why we're doing what we're doing, so it's easy for them to assume you can do this on a whim or as a fashion statement. I notice my friends who aren't cool about this (very few) are either assuming it's just a passing fancy, or at the other extreme, they want to tell me how complicated and difficult it's going to be, because of course I haven't researched it properly(!).

We need to find more ways of educating people without lecturing them.

Exactly. It's depressing when people make such assumptions :/

I think with any group of people, or just people in general, some of them are going to be full of sh**. And yes, I believe some of them will go to extremes because of it.

I would actually like to be normal, but not for those ignorant people.
And well... it's too late to be normal anyway.

The ironic thing is that so many people are "queer" in one way or another, that the "normal" people are in the minority  :-|.

Quote from: JayUnit on March 23, 2011, 08:13:54 AM
I think with any group of people, or just people in general, some of them are going to be full of sh**. And yes, I believe some of them will go to extremes because of it.

I completely agree. And hey, if they were stupid enough to medically transition then they'd become a real transsexual.

There's a girl on YouTube (username is MattzBoii) who socially transitioned to male at the age of 14. She went back to living as female because - and she actually said this - she missed being a lesbian. After asking a few questions on Formspring, she said that if she had the option at the time she would have started medical transition. She didn't really see it as a big deal at all because most of the effects of testosterone are reversible anyway. *Cough*.

In all honestly, I think there is somewhat of an FTM trend.

It doesn't matter who is trans and who is confussed.
We all have a life path to walk, things we need to learn and do to fulfil our lifes mission.
Those who detransition, and those who relise they are not trans somewhere along the way, all needed to learn something from this journey.
Regardless of the reasons someone starts to transition, they will learn some incredible life lessons that can only be learned by walking this path.

I think trend is a loaded term.

The internet is a place for people to 'try out' who they are and who they want to be in many different ways. Do I think there is a 'trend' for people to identify as trans? Quite possibly. Adolescence is a time of figuring out your identity, being confused, and the brain is still developing. Even though I think the classic statistics about transsexualism understates how prevalent it is, I am still highly suspicious that as many young people who claim to be trans - and probably believe that they are - actually *are* trans & will be as adults.

When I was growing up (yeah, this makes me sound old), there wasn't a "trend" of being emo, and there wasn't a "trend" of young people cutting themselves. Do I think that people didn't self-harm? I'm sure some did, but I do think that some disordered behaviors allow people to feed on one another, get ideas, and almost 'compete' (I'm thinking of eating disorders or other body dysmoprhic disorders), which means that technology & communication has probably made "trends" out of more disordered acts. While I view actual "gender identity disorder" as a medical condition and not a disorder, that doesn't mean that some of the people who THINK they have GID aren't actually disordered or confused. My hope is that advances in neuroscience may hold some keys and answers to figuring out what the condition known as GID really is and how it manifests itself, though I'm sure we're still quite a number of years away from having much to rely on.

That said: No one has any evidence about how many of the young FTMs out there (whether posting on youtube or forums or blogging) are *actually* transitioning. It really isn't so easy for teens under the age of 18 to just start HRT or get surgery. I don't think it is actually a "trend" until we have proof of actual transitions, rather than trans identification. Adolescents cutting their hair and calling themselves boy names or bro or binding their chests and even calling themselves "FTM" is definitely a "trend" - but it doesn't mean there is actually a trend of people who are and will ultimately transition to live lives as men.

I do fear that if transitioning were easier, especially for young teens, there would be a lot more de-transitioning going on, and it ultimately would harm the abilities of people who really do need to transition to do so. And I do find it difficult finding the right balance between supporting youth and teens - whether they are trans or not - and being open to the fact that not everyone who thinks he or she is trans really is or will be in the future.

Quote from: cynthialee on March 23, 2011, 10:10:24 AM
It doesn't matter who is trans and who is confussed.
We all have a life path to walk, things we need to learn and do to fulfil our lifes mission.
Those who detransition, and those who relise they are not trans somewhere along the way, all needed to learn something from this journey.
Regardless of the reasons someone starts to transition, they will learn some incredible life lessons that can only be learned by walking this path.

agree sfm

Just so it's clear, I wasn't making a judgement about people who de- or re-transition, I was just making the point that some people do that, and that some of those do so because they went into it and then found they'd made the wrong decision (at least at the time). So the non-trans public is right (though for the wrong reasons, mostly) if it thinks not everyone always makes the right decision (but that's within a huger human spectrum of people making wrong decisions during their learning-curve that we call life!). And anyway, that was just to lay another view alongside the "jealous of the attention" idea. Society is generally right behind people deciding to do big stuff at a young age so long as it's something declared normal (armed forces, sex, marriage) but as soon as something's not considered "normal", society thinks young people are incapable of deciding for themselves. It really wasn't so long ago in the UK that you were considered old enough at 16 to know who you wanted to ->-bleeped-<-, if it was girls you wanted to ->-bleeped-<- with - but for some reason you weren't considered old enough to know it might be guys until 5 years later (though at 16 you're old enough to kill people in wars). Weird world.

As for "trends", I suppose that there are more and younger people now than 5 or 10 years ago who know transition's a possibility, and who know not everyone in the world thinks it's crazy or evil, and who are therefore more open and public themselves about considering it as a possibility, desire, longing. So it might appear like a trend, but actually it's just that the volume got turned up .

I assume you're talking about 'that blog.'  It's a terrible thing, but I can't look away!  The lesbian in question recently made a post "proving" that FTMs transition just to get male privilege, and that's the only reason.  Plenty of commentators disagreed with her, only to be told they were lying or delusional.  It's just... so sad to see someone so hateful, within our own community.  Not that she wants to be part of any "queer alphabet soup" as she calls it.  That's great Dirt, stick to your lesbian community then and stop stalking FTMs on Youtube.

Is there a trans trend?  Maybe so.  I know that on places like deviantART and anime forums, many girls become obsessed with bishounen/anime pretty boys and want to be like them.  However doing just a little bit of research on the effects of hormones will tell you that if you take T, you probably won't turn into something like that; you'll become hairy and manly.  The average, nontrans girl doesn't want that... I think it's good that it's so hard to get access to hormones and surgery, the system tends to filter out the people who aren't serious about it.

What stands out there for me is the difference between people who just want to look like the opposite gender (or an idealised fantasy of it), and people who just want to be the opposite gender (for whom looking the part may be very important, but is still secondary).

That blog woman is no part of any community I'm part of, that's for damn sure! If I could be bothered, I'd ask to see her official papers declaring her spokeswomyn on behalf of all womyn everywhyre.

Quote from: Sylvester on March 23, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
I assume you're talking about 'that blog.'  It's a terrible thing, but I can't look away!  The lesbian in question recently made a post "proving" that FTMs transition just to get male privilege, and that's the only reason.  Plenty of commentators disagreed with her, only to be told they were lying or delusional.  It's just... so sad to see someone so hateful, within our own community.  Not that she wants to be part of any "queer alphabet soup" as she calls it.  That's great Dirt, stick to your lesbian community then and stop stalking FTMs on Youtube.

I honestly believe she has bigger issues.  I think there is a bunch of internalized transphobia and jealousy against those who have admited their gender problems/are transitioning. 

I think that said blogger is sick and tired of people seeing her as a male due to her unique physiology that she has snaped and takes it out on those she resembles. Trans men.

I wasn't making a judgement about people who de- or re-transition
Sure you were:
Well, and the fact that some people retransition or detransition suggests that some of those are indeed initially getting into it for the wrong reasons.

There could be a host of reasons why they decide to do that, and to label them 'wrong' is a value judgement.

That being said there is a huge range of variation in GID, (in itself, a variation) and an ever expanding number of ways in which to become who you are.  Everyone who is trying has a few false starts, particularly in the beginning when all the choices do not seem as obvious.  There is also a problem with those of a limited imagination who can only ever see two choices, And then you have the problem of listening to those who would take the anecdotal evidence of their own life (hardly a source of objective knowledge) and extol it as gospel, and 'The Way' - and the "Right" way, or "Real" way at that.   

I can see how it'd seem like that value judgement if you didn't read it as I intended it, as "...for (what they obviously decided were) the wrong reasons..." - all I meant was the more general sense that when you're doing something and then decide to pause or stop, it's because you decide that carrying on at that time is wrong.

And then others choose to interpret that as invalidating that person's experience, or even that of everyone doing the "same thing".