Hi.

Im  androgynous,    a mix of both,   tho im accepted as a woman with very male features  some thing that will not change not at 63 . that s facal wise,    body wise as a normal woman. brain wise both male / female & can not be seperated as i think both ways at the same time  so when you get that worked out youll understand who i am.

as to sexual im a non sexual person so im different . of cause i do have my history & some is the same tho not all.
One of the details are ,  we are all different & we can not all be put in to just two boxs,   the just male or female ,

So what ever you are , or how ever you see your self,  be proud of that . enjoy life & be happy for who you are.

....... Whats in a name any way........

...noeleena....

Quote from: Jaimey on March 22, 2011, 01:13:54 AM
But in this forum, androgyne means what genderqueer means to you.

Like I said, it's different for every person.

(...I wasn't disagreeing with Nygeel...I just used their post to prove my point.  *opportunist* )

I think that everywhere else it's the other way. Transgender websites are the one place where I've seen androgyne as an umbrella term and those sites (specifically here and one other site I'm on that uses androgyne) seem to be run by people of a different generation than I am.

(Preferred pronouns are male [he/him/his])

I'm in the boat with Nygeel, so I won't reiterate his explanation.  Yes, I quickly discovered that here androgyne is the umbrella term but in my head I think 'at Susan's, androgyne = genderqueer' if that makes any sense   To me, gq is much more fluid and encompassing.   But hey, to each their own   I'm sure that it's an age as well as geographical difference, among many other factors. 

http://www.toprockmusicvideos.com/the-who-my-generation-live-in-london-1967/

Yeppers...some of us come from a different time and place, no doubt about that. The words and what they meant have changed over time. The generations before mine thought we were all crazy pot smoking, acid dropping, long haired freaks of nature. If you weren't Heterosexual, then you were a queer. people could go out and kick the ->-bleeped-<- out of them ->-bleeped-<-got queers, and nobody said a word. And God help you if you were a minority also. So the word means something else from my past. It took a long time for Gay to become the excepted term.
But, it's time for my generation to step back and let the younger generations run things. If you look at the world news, thats the next generations that are going to have to make the decisions they will, and after a while, the next generations will complain about them, too. And the words and terms will grow into different things for you, too.
My generation hasn't really been running much of anything lately, we're just kickin' back and watching the next one's learn how they are going to do it all. Because that's what's expected of each generation as it grows up.

I have been on three or four different transgender websites and "androgyne" was used the same in all of them, which is the way it's used here.  But like I said, we all come up with our own terms and use them the way we best see fit.  I honestly just don't think that "genderqueer" is a pretty word, so I don't use it.  I prefer "androgyne" because it feels better to me.  Other people might feel exactly opposite that.

This is the point of using an umbrella term...we'd have a thousand forums if every term got it's own.

Quote from: Jaimey on March 22, 2011, 09:39:12 PM
I honestly just don't think that "genderqueer" is a pretty word, so I don't use it.  I prefer "androgyne" because it feels better to me.

I'm with you, kid. Besides, I don't see anything "queer" about my gender; I came by it naturally.

S

I'd also say that "queer" has a connotation of sexuality/sexual preference, so it feels strange to me to place it with gender identity.

I tend to use 'genderqueer' when describing my gender to other people, purely because more gender-related stuff comes up when you search the internet (specifically YouTube) with it and it's just a more widely-used term in general. I don't like the word though, I think it sounds somehow less authentic, more made-up. Also I agree with the people who've said it seems like a kind of performance, pretty much all the contributors to sites about being genderqueer are female-bodied university students (e.g. Genderfork is possibly an extreme example), and it appears I fit that stereotype all too well but I worry that that might make it look like some fad I've got into instead of what it actually is.
In real life I think the word 'androgyne' refers more to people who look androgynous, and I certainly don't, I just identify this way. I get enough of the 'but that word doesn't mean that it means something else' shindig from explaining to people I am asexual and then having them insist that I'm using the term incorrectly. >.< Which annoys the heck out of me, so I avoid these misunderstandings as much as possible by using the least ambiguous term.

This is interesting to me, because I'd been staying out of this forum since I don't identify as androgynous, but genderqueer. And this is honestly the first time I've seen "androgynous" being used to describe a range of non-binary identities. To be androgynous, to me, is to be balanced between male and female. Having essentially equal characteristics of both or neither, simultaneously. It's like its own gender. Which is what I thought this section of the forum was about, hence my hesitation.

How I've seen "genderqueer" used, in contrast, is any bending/blending/subverting/questioning/rejection of binary gender. Thus, covering bi-gender and gender fluid identities as well as androgynous ones. I would personally feel uncomfortable describing myself as androgynous, because I'm first and foremost male, FTM. Simply, a gender bending man. Sometimes I present in an androgynous manner, but that's simply relevant to me in an aesthetic sense. I have no idea where all of the concepts of it as a performance are coming from. Gender->-bleeped-<- seems to fit that more, since that's a very extreme, in your face form. I just do this for comfort's sake. And, just so you are aware, I find calling genderqueer a purely conscious effort, a sort of performance, to be offensive.

"Queer" itself is so controversial, I think that's a lot of the problem. But I love the word. Yes, I'm from a young generation and I haven't had as many negative associations with it as I'm sure some of you have. But it's so fluid, and it's been used to represents every part of the LGBT etc community. It has no limits to it. It seems to me to at once represent unconventionality, pride, diversity, everyone who's been declared an outcast, everyone individual. Outside the mainstream, essentially. It's not uncommon that I'd rather ditch my long line of identities and just call myself queer.

The word used was 'androgyne' anyway - not androgynous. I don't think I would feel welcome in a forum labelled androgynous, cos I'm not, but androgyne, I'll go with that.

I think I can see the concern about seperating androgyne and androgynous.  But even androgynous means having both male and female characteristics which is pretty much what every human being who has ever walked this planet has been.  Androgynous doesn't have to mean ambiguous regarding gender, though the nature of people is we are all ambiguous, unltimately something is undefined about us, to ourselves to others.

I agree with what Juliet said

Well, I don't. I think she's just trying to hijack this thread. Or at the very least it's a cleverly thought out drift...

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 01, 2011, 02:43:44 AM
The word used was 'androgyne' anyway - not androgynous. I don't think I would feel welcome in a forum labelled androgynous, cos I'm not, but androgyne, I'll go with that.

I don't see the difference. Androgyne is the noun, androgynous is the adjective.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on May 01, 2011, 09:05:26 PM
I don't see the difference. Androgyne is the noun, androgynous is the adjective.

You're correct they are the same.
 
The reason for me at least is that androgynous has come to be associated with being undifferentiated, while Androgyne is free of the association and can more easily mean having traits of both genders to a high degree.

I'd really like to see androgynous to become commonly to mean anything from low in both gender traits to high in both.

In my mind androgynous has come to mean some skinny person with a slicked centre parting and cheek bones - usually pouting.

Androgyne means to me, a whole group of people who feel they are placed somewhere away from the two usual binary genders.

Quote from: Nikolai_S on April 30, 2011, 09:19:27 PM
I would personally feel uncomfortable describing myself as androgynous, because I'm first and foremost male, FTM. Simply, a gender bending man. Sometimes I present in an androgynous manner, but that's simply relevant to me in an aesthetic sense. I have no idea where all of the concepts of it as a performance are coming from. Gender->-bleeped-<- seems to fit that more, since that's a very extreme, in your face form. I just do this for comfort's sake. And, just so you are aware, I find calling genderqueer a purely conscious effort, a sort of performance, to be offensive.

And just so you are aware, Androgyne, Genderqueer, and other non-binary gendered people here find it offensive to have a binary gendered person trying to explain who and what we are to ourselves. It has been suggested, in the past, that if you don't understand non-binary thinking that your welcome to hang around and learn something about it. I suggest that instead of trying to define us to ourselves, that you should try to learn a little something about Androgyne and Genderqueer first. At least on this forum, for the sake of not arguing the point. It serves no purpose.

Some of you may already know that my hersband Sevan identifys as an androgyn.
Sevan see hirself as a blend of male and female. Ze incorperates that which is male and that which is female into one. In many ways ze is my wife and in others ze is more a husband. Being inbetween genders seems to be the state of being that Sevan thrives in most.

I have IRL friends who id as genderqueer. They are fluid in gender presentation and inner feelings. Most the time they seem to be happy to present in their birth gender but occasionly they will be in the other gender presentation or be in a gender->-bleeped-<- state.

Quote from: ativan on May 02, 2011, 10:17:09 AM
And just so you are aware, Androgyne, Genderqueer, and other non-binary gendered people here find it offensive to have a binary gendered person trying to explain who and what we are to ourselves. It has been suggested, in the past, that if you don't understand non-binary thinking that your welcome to hang around and learn something about it. I suggest that instead of trying to define us to ourselves, that you should try to learn a little something about Androgyne and Genderqueer first. At least on this forum, for the sake of not arguing the point. It serves no purpose.

Did you miss the part where I said I myself am genderqueer? It's my identity that was being called a performance, I think I have the right to express my discomfort with that and explain how I view it.

I would never argue something that I have no knowledge of. I've identified as genderqueer far longer than I've identified as FTM, and I've researched it and been active in the genderqueer community for over two years. And saying I don't understand non-binary thinking? Where on earth did you find in my post the idea that I only comprehend binary identities? You're making several assumptions there that you would have done well to clarify before attacking me.

The word androgyny comes from the latin word andro and gyn - man and woman respectively. So the textbook definition of androgyny would be a person with moth masculine and feminine qualities; both man and woman. (Different from "both male and female").

With that said I think of androgyny as exactly that: someone who identifies as both man and woman. Of course I take into consideration other people's interpretation of the word and wouldn't force that definition on anyone, that's just how I understand the word itself, not the person using it.

Genderqueer ... I think this word fits me best. I feel I portray both manly and womanly qualities, but I don't -feel- like either. I feel like just a human being with a certain reproductive anatomy, hormones, and chromosomes. I don't really think of myself as gendered at all most of the time.