After a number of posts about lasers I went to my laser people and said that there is a lot of confusion in the community about laser hair removal and what is effective and what isn't.
It was an interesting discussion. I get zapped by Registered Nurses in a medical laser studio. They run medical lasers, they can only be bought with people with medical qualifications (at least in Australia). They emit entirely in the red region of the spectrum, which is the region of energy you need to destroy melanated (?) hair follicles. They give off a serious amount of energy and are very easily capable of giving skin burns. I receive 28 joules per square centimetre across my face. No home laser gets anywhere near this. The lasers available to beauticians and hairdressers (in Australia) have limited spectral response in the red part of the emission spectra. So they are OK for treating skin complaints etc, but of little use on hair removal. OK if you have only a little hair they may be OK but for most of us girls who have been cursed with facial hair they will do nothing or spend a long time to do something. If a laser has 10% red output compared to 100% output one would expect to be zapped 10 times more. For ten times the cost.

I think some of the comments that have come through about success or lack of it following laser, may be due to what product is being use on the individual.

I was told that a Duet IPL medical laser costs about $150,000 - $175,000. They of course will be just as efficient as a home bought $200 - $500 laser.

The damage to a hair follicle takes some time to be seen. It isn't by any means instant. Colouring the hair follicle with any of the products  is a total waste of time and  will not do anything, you colour the hair, not the cells. You need to kill the cells that grow the hair. Otherwise the cells grow another hair. The hair follicle is a complex little beast. spraying " Go Away Hair" product at $X/ bottle will make the sales people quite happy and do very little for you.

I think the take home message was if it sounds too good to be true. It is.

Good laser, and I regard mine as good, is very effective. If you have the right skin and hair type. I have now had 5 sessions. The facial hair has gone except for some upper lip
we concentrated on that last time and it hurt, she wanted to do a second pass but I couldn't take it. First time I've backed out of anything , it is a week later and it still hurts. but 50-70% of my upper lip  hair has gone.  I have no idea why this session hurt so much, but we think it may be hormonal 'cos I do have pathetic and non-predictable menstrual cycles.

I have also been told straight out that laser will not remove grey or white hairs and they need electrolysis. Don't even bother and tell your friends if any laser tech says  that it will work they are ripping you off.

And after laser sunscreen and moisturiser .

Hope this helps

Cindy

   

Since starting to epilate my hair I am definately weighing the difference between the time it takes to epilate vs the cost of laser and electro-I have a lot of white hair so I would need electro too. Thanks for posting.

Randi

Cindy, how long did you wait into your HRT to begin laser treatments?

Ah so it's red output we're looking for to zap the hair folicles, I have two options as to where I'm going to go for treatment I'll ask each how much red light their lasers deploy.

QuoteI receive 28 joules per square centimetre across my face.

and this is the bench mark, and they better reach it haha

Cindy I'm really happy your facial hair is all but gone , that upper lip still on the brightside nearly nearly there hun

I'm either saving for a course of six treatments at a discount or going for one at a time, it's so almost impossibly tempting to go and have one done I remember Samantha saying so much hair was lost after the first session.  Is that what happened with you?

And great entire post btw

I've had my first session last week and don't see any difference yet, but have another booked. The laser was very definitely red - I could see it even through the goggles!

Very informative and helpful post Cindy    Very glad you posted it

Quote from: EmmaM on April 04, 2011, 03:39:21 PM
Cindy, how long did you wait into your HRT to begin laser treatments?

Hi Emma,
I was about 7-8 months? maybe a tad longer? The key are the AA's (seemingly). You have to wait about 3 weeks between each session for the first three sessions in any particular area. This allows the hair growth cycle to go through a complete cycle so that the next session hits a new growth of hair. My first full face took three sessions, as I was too hairy for one go on the entire face. This took three one hour session to cover the face for 'one' cycle. The next took two sessions, that's how much I lost , the third took 20 mins for the whole face so I started on my torso as well. Face sessions now take about 15 mins and we concentrate on 'problem' spots like the upper lip.  My laser lady is great she is so happy with the results, as am I of course. After three sessions on an area you can go and get that blasted whenever you like, can afford financially or take the pain. As I said she wanted to up the power on my upper lip but was reluctant in case of burns. So she decided to do two passes at 28j, but I was almost in tears after the first so I decided to wait. It was a more than painful session for some reason.
I have to say a week later it is still sore but massively cleared.  During the three week period you continue to lose hair after the sessions so it certainly isn't instant.

The torso session doesn't hurt at all. She uses a laser with a bigger surface area that actually sucks your skin into the laser head and then zaps it. I covers about 2.5 cm sq at a time. But I did need the smaller laser around my nipples, which is not nice . She has recommended waxing my back before laser, I have little hair there but I cannot shave it. You need to be clean shaved before a laser run.

We are starting to have rude conversations about the growths. I told her to burn them off but she sort of cringed. But she is a happily married hetero female so maybe  too much for her.

Again I have been very happy but I think I also happened to meet a very professional group.

Hugs

Cindy

Quote from: Sophie on April 05, 2011, 01:10:05 AM
Ah so it's red output we're looking for to zap the hair folicles, I have two options as to where I'm going to go for treatment I'll ask each how much red light their lasers deploy.and this is the bench mark, and they better reach it haha

Cindy I'm really happy your facial hair is all but gone , that upper lip still on the brightside nearly nearly there hun

I'm either saving for a course of six treatments at a discount or going for one at a time, it's so almost impossibly tempting to go and have one done I remember Samantha saying so much hair was lost after the first session.  Is that what happened with you?

And great entire post btw

Hi Sophie
Thank you.
Yes make sure it is a red medical laser.  At least in Australia you need to be medically qualified to use them. Hence the girls are Registered Nurses. Hairdressers etc are not allowed to use them (here).   See my reply to Emma but it took three one hour sessions to do my face the first time, it took two 20 min sessions the second and then 15 mins. I was totally amazed at the effect. I went to work after the first one and (I'm not FT at work) and one of my techs, who knows Cindy, looked at me and said you've had you face lasered, god you have lost a lot of hair . Drifted around on cloud 9 for a while.

As for power Minogne is the woman who looks after me most of the time, but there is also Margaret, who is also great. They also laser each other. Margaret likes the higher the power the better approach, while Minogne likes the keep the power high enough to do the job even if it takes a little longer. BTW they judge the power on your skin type, and hair type. I had to fill in a questionnaire about my skin type, exposure to sun and if I go out in the sun a lot or even sunbathe. If you go to tanning studios they will not treat you at all.

Good luck and happy follicle zapping

Cindy

Quote from: yoxi on April 05, 2011, 01:14:18 AM
I've had my first session last week and don't see any difference yet, but have another booked. The laser was very definitely red - I could see it even through the goggles!

Padma no results yet but still that is great news to hear

Quoteone of my techs, who knows Cindy, looked at me and said you've had you face lasered, god you have lost a lot of hair . Drifted around on cloud 9 for a while.

it's great when we hear others tell us that things are really working

Hi, ten years ago I received a burn under the corner of my mouth from a laser treatment. Needless to say that was the last laser treatment I ever had. You have to look for it but I definitely have a scar. Electro never gave me scars.

The person who gave me the treatment was my electrologist, and she is a sweet person who had treated me well as a client and became a friend. We saw each other for 2-4 hours a week and became close. I just couldn't get mad at her because she is just so nice and felt horrible about burning me.  But let's face it - that nasty burn could have been prevented. 

I'm sure laser hair removal technology has come a long way in ten years. Kim

Cindy:

Thanks so much for this timely and informative post, hon!

Soon, I will begin laser treatments in a medical laser boutique just like you describe.  Here is its link:

http://www.drdarm.com/

They have the equipment you describe here.  Of course, they are expensive.  Also, my beard is predominantly salt-and-pepper in color.  Laser treatments may only be of limited value to me.  However, I'm willing to drop $1,000 U.S.D. to find out.  Personally, I dread electrolysis. 

Once I start beard removal and get a better-fitting wig, I can go fulltime.  It's been a long road with many delays, but it's all about determination and persistence. 

Thanks, Cindy, for this fine and useful thread!

   Lacey

@ Cindy; Thank you!

@ Yoxi: Good luck, friend!

@ Lacey: I've followed you a little bit, and I'm happy you're confident enough to start thinking about full time! The dark side beckons! 

Quote from: changed back on April 05, 2011, 07:16:12 PM
Hi, ten years ago I received a burn under the corner of my mouth from a laser treatment. Needless to say that was the last laser treatment I ever had. You have to look for it but I definitely have a scar. Electro never gave me scars.

The person who gave me the treatment was my electrologist, and she is a sweet person who had treated me well as a client and became a friend. We saw each other for 2-4 hours a week and became close. I just couldn't get mad at her because she is just so nice and felt horrible about burning me.  But let's face it - that nasty burn could have been prevented. 

I'm sure laser hair removal technology has come a long way in ten years. Kim

Very true. That's why I have gone the medical way. And she is very cautious.
So sorry to hear about the burn though, and it's extra tough when it is someone you have become friends with.
Hugs
Cindy

Quote from: Lacey Lynne on April 05, 2011, 11:11:46 PM
Cindy:

Thanks so much for this timely and informative post, hon!

Soon, I will begin laser treatments in a medical laser boutique just like you describe.  Here is its link:

http://www.drdarm.com/

They have the equipment you describe here.  Of course, they are expensive.  Also, my beard is predominantly salt-and-pepper in color.  Laser treatments may only be of limited value to me.  However, I'm willing to drop $1,000 U.S.D. to find out.  Personally, I dread electrolysis. 

Once I start beard removal and get a better-fitting wig, I can go fulltime.  It's been a long road with many delays, but it's all about determination and persistence. 

Thanks, Cindy, for this fine and useful thread!

   Lacey

Sounds good Lacey. Have a happy follicle zap time
Cindy

May our faces all be peachy... - or maybe nectariny, since peaches are more fuzzy

I think it makes a huge difference to apPEARence lol.  Cannot wait    This is all so right, I'm getting that fantastic weak feeling, anyone else have that? and why does it make us go all floppy lol.