I've heard that in around 45-50 years from now the majority of the population will be androgynous - gender neutral.

I can see it happening now, guys are worrying less about being perceived as macho/manly men and are really wearing more gender neutral clothes, wearing makeup, having androgynous looking hair and so on. Even with mannerisms and what not. It's very obvious to me as women become more masculine and men become more feminine and slowly fall into the class of being androgynous. This is at least based on western civilization.

I was wondering as trans guys, how you feel about the possibility of a gender neutral world, would you like it? Do you think it would make things easier with being trans or harder?

Also if you haven't noticed our bodies are also slowly evolving into a more androgynous form. I will say this, when I was 10 to the age I am now, 20, I have never looked around a mall and seen so many people I couldn't stick a gender label on. I think at least from what I've noticed the numbers have doubled. There used to be just one or two people who'd pass me by and I was unsure in my mind what they were (because at the time I was dealing with my own gender identity crisis) and now I look around, I couldn't care less about their sex, but I can't help wonder what they identify as in gender terms. Do they still keep their titles as men/women or are they just becoming people with names, rather than men and women with names.

Do you think most of the world could live with identifying as androgynous? I have trouble myself but perhaps it has to do with the current society I live in.

There is the outer (fashion industry) but there is also the inner (chemistry) which seems to be under control of the food industry. This factor is the reason many females mature early and why many bio males have high hormone levels. I hope they get together and work this out because with the attitudes of sexuality at schools and colleges it seems to be getting worse. At the malls you see teens and young adults who buy into the fashion scene but after there you have those in the corporate world who quickly tell people they have to get into their gender or else they won't be hired. Hopefully though with sexual harrasment lawsuits etc men will get their hormones in control. That is the area that needs adressing asap. If men could find it cool to learn how to have sex like a woman with a feeling of true love verses too much testosterone then i can see your world coming around but until we change the way men view sex as a hot to trot attitude things will just appear to change in teens at malls. Oh i live in a amish region and the young males have no where near the high incidence of over sexed hormones as those in the rest of the USA / world. These amish grow natural food and eat what they raise and are aware of hormones and what they do to the youth. 

I don't think most people will be androgynous. Most people are comfortable with their gender and wouldn't want to be perceived differently. To me being androgynous is being in limbo, not a spot I want to be. I wouldn't want someone to have to guess if Im a man or a woman. I think a more gender neutral world will benefit those who identify as gender neutral. For those who are on the other ends of the spectrum it may make it harder for them to pass. I wouldn't say our bodies are evolving to become androgynous. Fashion is just changing. I don't think most of the world would want to live identifying as androgynous since most people don't have a problem with their gender.

Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on April 05, 2011, 07:44:39 AM
There is the outer (fashion industry) but there is also the inner (chemistry) which seems to be under control of the food industry. This factor is the reason many females mature early and why many bio males have high hormone levels. I hope they get together and work this out because with the attitudes of sexuality at schools and colleges it seems to be getting worse. At the malls you see teens and young adults who buy into the fashion scene but after there you have those in the corporate world who quickly tell people they have to get into their gender or else they won't be hired. Hopefully though with sexual harrasment lawsuits etc men will get their hormones in control. That is the area that needs adressing asap. If men could find it cool to learn how to have sex like a woman with a feeling of true love verses too much testosterone then i can see your world coming around but until we change the way men view sex as a hot to trot attitude things will just appear to change in teens at malls. Oh i live in a amish region and the young males have no where near the high incidence of over sexed hormones as those in the rest of the USA / world. These amish grow natural food and eat what they raise and are aware of hormones and what they do to the youth.

The fashion and food industry is causing females to mature early and males to have high hormone levels? And because of this younger people have liberal attitudes towards sex? Correlation does not imply causation. I do not believe what you eat can have a strong impact on your hormone levels. I was born into vegetarianism and eat a lot of soy, which supposedly can raise your estrogen levels. My testosterone levels have always been high. I've asked multiple doctors about it and none of them believe food can have a big impact on your hormones. Regardless, testosterone may increase your sex drive, but you are still in control of your actions. If you don't want to have sex with someone you don't love that's your choice, but you shouldn't imply that others are wrong for enjoying their sexuality outside of a loving relationship.  Not everyone is looking for love and not everyone wants commitment. The Amish aren't having sex for the same reasons they aren't using electricity. It has nothing to do with hormones.

If you don't want to have sex with someone you don't love that's your choice, but you shouldn't imply that others are wrong for enjoying their sexuality outside of a loving relationship.

I am sorry if my writing sounded that way i was thinking more on the line how males are becoming much more agressive sexually with females in todays society and many times this leads to sexual asaults. Yes it happened in my days and it has always happened but sexuality surely has become much much more open and has caused many males to have more problems than they did back when i was a teen 40 yrs ago

SHARKY:
As for enjoying sex without commitment thats fine but many males don't know what a woman knows with regards to their sexuality in general. They don't have testes which causes them to act out like males can. It would be great in an androgynous way for males to understand their bodies chemistry so they can be capable to let the mind thru a feeling of love (even if its temporary love) to cause the body to function sexually verses it just being a testes hot to trot action as many male youth expeience.

Sharky you may not quite understand my point because you haven't experienced what i have seen being raised as a bio male until my late 30's and lived through the yrs i have.
And yes the amish try to raise their children not to have sex until after marriage however they do have the same issues as regular society but not quite as much and not just because they are taught not too but because they are trained about oversexuality unlike many males in public schools who are just taught about sex and they also are trained about their diets. i know because i talk to their parents here. I have offered to buy them foods at a cheaper price but they refused saying they were concerned for the hormones injected into those animals. the amish are very very up on science and organics and solar etc etc

Males couldn't have that "hot to trot" experience unless there were females out there ready to "trot".  I think you underestimate the general male population.

You can find the good if your willing to look.

Yes, I'm of the older generation, but I don't remember wanting to take advantage of any woman just to relieve my inner tensions.  Although I'm sure there were many of my time who did just that.

For now just accept that there are both good and bad men (as well as women) and avoid throwing your net over too large a group of the population.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 05, 2011, 05:15:55 PM
Males couldn't have that "hot to trot" experience unless there were females out there ready to "trot".  I think you underestimate the general male population.

You can find the good if your willing to look.

Yes, I'm of the older generation, but I don't remember wanting to take advantage of any woman just to relieve my inner tensions.  Although I'm sure there were many of my time who did just that.

For now just accept that there are both good and bad men (as well as women) and avoid throwing your net over too large a group of the population.

I never said there weren't good and bad males. I think your misunderstanding my writings which is a generalization of male biology verse female biology and how it makes them function in general. Its like a person has to write every possibility to cover every circumstance just to share a generalized point of view sheesh

I would be estatic to live in an Andro world. Since then there'd be less bashing at least in certain aspects.

Androgynous to some can be said to be 'between' genders, others believe it's just about being neither. I just mean that so many people are crossing gender barriers that it's become apparent that there is a possibility for fifty years from now, that androgyny will be if not the majority, very common.

Look at women fifty years ago, and women today. Women are becoming far more androgynous than they ever once were. I also do not mean in just the sense of fashion, look the mannerisms and the attitudes of females today. For girls I do notice an increase in breast sizes but I know that for sure has to do with hormones in the food. Like the stories i've heard of some women giving their pre teen kids soy milk just to make their breast grow. Then again regular milk can cause breast growth in men. I don't trust any of that garbage food.

Anyways, it is a hard task to imagine a world that isn't. I like that in fifty years I may just be alive so I can see exactly what changes are going to occur. I also did not mean a likeliness of men in skirts, but the changes in mannerisms and attitudes which is already occurring. I don't mean that gender will cease to exist either.

This is still a very gender specific society. As long as it matters to the majority of population what gender of people they go out with/ get married, it won't happen.

Quote from: partypoison on April 08, 2011, 06:26:37 AM
This is still a very gender specific society. As long as it matters to the majority of population what gender of people they go out with/ get married, it won't happen.

I agree with this. Yes, men may be more concerned about their hair or fashion now and women might feel free enough to wear whatever they want, etc. but this society is still so male and female. There may be people who look androgynous but I think we're far from a universal acceptance level.