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What Does ‘Transgender’ Skeleton Mean For Us?

Started by Shana A, April 07, 2011, 09:28:57 AM

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Shana A

What Does 'Transgender' Skeleton Mean For Us?

April 7, 2011 by Matt Kailey

http://tranifesto.com/2011/04/07/what-does-transgender-skeleton-mean-for-us/

I'm not an archeologist (isn't it funny how I'm always saying what I'm not – soooo many things I'm not), but the "transgender" skeleton discovered in Prague seems important to me.

As the Pink News reports, the 5,000-year-old skeleton was determined to be male, but was buried in the manner that females in the culture were buried, causing archeologists to theorize that the person may have been trans.
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Dawn D.

I am rather perplexed that nowhere in all the reporting I've seen on this, has it been suggested that this person may in fact have been intersexed. Declared at birth to be female.  Is it not a possibility rather than supposing this person to be "gay" or "transexual? If not intersexed, then I would lean to the transexual supposition over this person being gay.  After all, it just seems unlikely that if this person were gay that the societal recognition of that orientation would make a presumption of feminine over masculine.

Dawn
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Lepidoptera

I had the same thoughts, Dawn. Additionally, with gender roles and concepts of gender and sexuality differing between cultures we have no way of knowing how they could have conceptualized this person. We know that skeletons generally recognized as female were buried in this way, but there could have been cultural aspects to it that we simply do not understand. There's certainly nothing about a feminine burial that implies sexual orientation.
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Zelane

Quote from: Dawn D. on April 07, 2011, 10:04:26 AM
I am rather perplexed that nowhere in all the reporting I've seen on this, has it been suggested that this person may in fact have been intersexed. Declared at birth to be female.  Is it not a possibility rather than supposing this person to be "gay" or "transexual? If not intersexed, then I would lean to the transexual supposition over this person being gay.  After all, it just seems unlikely that if this person were gay that the societal recognition of that orientation would make a presumption of feminine over masculine.

Dawn

*Ding*

At least have conform in that you are smarter that those "scientists"

Of course, the simple most easiest explanation its the one who is NOT used.


Then again the I in LGBTI its NOT for intersex is for Invisible -_-
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tekla

An archeologist is not a scientist in the true sense.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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pixiegirl

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2011, 02:47:51 PM
An archeologist is not a scientist in the true sense.

well, except for being scientists. The 'true sense' of science is just a narrow set of criteria only achievable in certain areas of the natural sciences anyways.

Really though, the coverage of this story has just been funny as hell to me. One person says gay and brings sexual identity into it either through ignorance or misspeaking, a bunch of tabloids pick up on it and boom....the 'arguments' are priceless.

I could sum it up like this... Supposing the person was 'gay' should never have happened, I think that was down to someone being an idiot. Transsexual is a likely possibility, Intersex is also possible but actually less likely, and there is still a reasonable chance that the skeleton was mis-identified and actually is female. It's harder to do than you may think.
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Joelene9

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2011, 02:47:51 PM
An archeologist is not a scientist in the true sense.
Probably not, I seen other of the scientists do those 'slight errors' as well.  Transgender people were known from the Native American cultures and their cousins the central Asian tribes such as the Kirghiz, probably from all of the way back to the end of the last ice age.  I was given a text of that history to read by my therapist back in the late '70s.  It described how a transwoman comes of age through the rites to be accepted as a woman.  The decision by the transgender MtoF was made during the early teens. The person took herbs known to have feminizing effects (phytoestrogens) and involved a rite that included that person abrading the area behind the scrotum with a sharp twig until it bled, indicating menses, thus the start of womanhood.   
  The early European trappers observed the phenomenon of the feminized "squaw men" doing the women's chores and in some cases wet nursing the tribe's babies.  Some of those were even married to a male warrior. 
  A speaker was at my club meeting last fall and he discussed the crescent shaped mounds found in the northern tier of states and southern Canada (c 800-3000 BCE).  He said that the tribal shamens were considered and was usually women, even the males.  Some of those males did dress as women as well.  The speaker mentioned the word "transgender" in that vein.  Hollywood cinema used the European bias and had the old men with a few screws missing as the tribal shamans.  The fat crescent symbol represents the Moon (menstral period roughly follows the phases of the Moon, in most cultures menses is tied to the Moon) and the sow bear.  The bear going in her den in fall, then emerging with cubs in the spring as a symbol of fertility.  The speaker showed a slide of a bear browsing.  It had a fat crescent shape with all fours on the ground, head down and the back had a high arc.  A lot of those artifacts found had the bear carvings shaped as a fat crescent Moon.  Some of those existing tribes in that area today have the cultural memory of that. 
  There will be more of these findings as the biases of the past (which I call "Holy Roman") gives way to other explanations of the past cultures, a lot of those will probably be as inaccurate as those given in the past.  Egyptology is one of those in which those biases reign.  20 years ago you can tell what nationality the archaelogical survey camp was, not by the languages, but by the theories those people spell out while they were digging.  The French, British and German camp theories were all different and the main ones at that time.   
  We must be careful with our own transgender biases as well. 
  Joelene
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Lepidoptera

From what I understand, the scientists who first had a press conference about the skeleton said that it was possibly a member of a "third gender" social group. Reporters then twisted that around to transgender or gay. Others in the field refute it being a third gender at all, as there are other bits of evidence that need to be taken into account before coming to that conclusion and it could very well just be a female skeleton that was been misidentified, or a male-identified person buried in an unusual way for an unknown reason, or someone who was intersex. It's important to remember that our culture's binary view of gender isn't always represented in other cultures (if there were no American Indians still here to speak for themselves, I'm sure Two Spirit people would be represented as something completely unlike they actually are). Projecting our own biases on the past distorts our view. The modern, western concept of being trans* isn't universal and there are many different cultural expressions of gender and sexual non-conformity.

This was a really good blog post on it: http://ancientbodies.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/gay-caveman-wrecking-a-perfectly-good-story/
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