So I've got a problem here.

I only pass about maybe 30% of the time.  not even half.   So I definitely don't feel ready to use the men's restroom.  but that 30% of the time when I DO pass as a male is often when I'm in the women's restroom.  People STARE at me and try to figure out if I'm in the right restroom or not.  Today, a lady came in and looked at me in HORROR and she looked like she was ready to leave out the door except that I left first. 
And my school doesn't (and most places) don't have those separate single bathrooms, or else I'd just use that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with this.  I really don't like being stared at....

Perhaps making further effort to pass as a male would be the first step you should take, if you haven't already tried your best. I personally have lived as a male my entire life and I think most guys seriously would not care if you used their restroom, even if you were chick in a mini-skirt. Actually, I think they might enjoy that. Anyways, guys don't screech, slap, or do anything that you would expect the stereotypical shocked female to do. Most dudes don't bully girls either, and hold a mutual respect towards them.

You're definitely going to get some odd looks and probably a few verbal comments if you're only passing 30% of the time, but maybe you should try it and see what happens. I really wouldn't recommend doing that before going full-time, but if you feel that strongly about it I wouldn't question you using the men's room.

Quote from: Corey on April 27, 2011, 06:34:30 PM
Perhaps making further effort to pass as a male would be the first step you should take, if you haven't already tried your best. I personally have lived as a male my entire life and I think most guys seriously would not care if you used their restroom, even if you were chick in a mini-skirt. Actually, I think they might enjoy that. Anyways, guys don't screech, slap, or do anything that you would expect the stereotypical shocked female to do. Most dudes don't bully girls either, and hold a mutual respect towards them.

This advice is both partially correct AND extremely dangerous. Most guys don't think it's awesome to have girls in the restroom. But technically, it's true that MOST guys are not going to raise any issue beyond, "You're in the wrong room. Go away."

The problem with not passing is that you need more than going on the hopes that most guys will turn a blind eye to what they see as a misguided girl. If MOST people are reading you as female, it is flat out DANGEROUS to use these restrooms and bank on them ALL being ok with you. People get harrassed and assaulted for using the wrong restroom. Sadly, it's not *uncommon* to find FTMs who can tell you this.

I remember reading on another thread here that the best advice was to work just a tiny bit harder to get read as female in the female restrooms, until you pass well enough to switch over to the men's ones. Things like adding an accessory that a girl would have but not a guy. Something you can quickly add and subtract - just for the purpose of bathroom. It can cut your 30% pass rate lower just for when you need to not be quite so andro.

I know how you feel.  I normally pass until I talk (unless I am sick like I have been the last week and can barely talk).  Luckly, my g/f is with me most of the time, so I just talk to her which gives the female voice and plus us talking when entering makes it less questionable.  When I am alone and know I have to go to a women's restroom I tend to puff out my chest a little bit so women don't freak out if they see I do have a chest.  That works most of the time, but if you are in a tourist destination like Disney, it won't work at all.... god the stares, double takes at the door/gender sign and people who said something to me only to look stupid afterwards was too much for me to deal with.  I will never go back there until after top surgery.

well i don't wanna advocate anything that has been declared dangerous in this same thread.....but i did use male restrooms wearing mini skirts *blush* in bars and at shows etc. ...girls do it all the time in places where the female restrooms are too crowded. but more importantly, i used male bathrooms when i had long hair and wearing boys clothing but not really trying to pass. and while i did that for a couple of years, there was not one instance where someone addressed me or gave me a weird stare or anything like that. guys usually don't look at one another in a bathroom situation, whereas girls have this habit of looking everyone up and down *yuck*. and as someone trying to pass, you are most likely pretty damn far from what an average girl considers feminine.....so they'll be wary and stare at you all the more.

i guess the difference is that women think a guy in the ladies room is a scary thing. now most guys aren't very afraid of girls, so they do not need to be wary about that.

Quote from: emil on April 27, 2011, 08:34:07 PM
well i don't wanna advocate anything that has been declared dangerous in this same thread.....but i did use male restrooms wearing mini skirts *blush* in bars and at shows etc. ...girls do it all the time in places where the female restrooms are too crowded. but more importantly, i used male bathrooms when i had long hair and wearing boys clothing but not really trying to pass. and while i did that for a couple of years, there was not one instance where someone addressed me or gave me a weird stare or anything like that. guys usually don't look at one another in a bathroom situation, whereas girls have this habit of looking everyone up and down *yuck*. and as someone trying to pass, you are most likely pretty damn far from what an average girl considers feminine.....so they'll be wary and stare at you all the more.

i guess the difference is that women think a guy in the ladies room is a scary thing. now most guys aren't very afraid of girls, so they do not need to be wary about that.

Where do you live?  I'm curious, from the variety of answer in this thread, if it depends on location for how men will respond in restrooms.

if it depends on location for how men will respond in restrooms.

It depends far more on the social class of the guys in the restroom.

As a girl who wants to someday crossdress as a male, but still use the female bathrooms while dressed up, this is a subject I'm also worried about.

My plan is to act as if I belong, even if I don't look like it. Be confident and relaxed, as if you're not worried about being seen as someone in the wrong restroom. Even if you are worried. If someone saids "This is the men's/women's room", give a short calm response that states you know what bathroom you're in. Just go in and out, don't rush but don't spend anymore time then you need to.

People can and will pick up on a person's discomfort of being in a place they don't belong, especially when it's questionable if the person belongs or not. The person's discomfort reinforces the idea the person is in the wrong place, and also makes him or her seem like easy prey. By appearing  confident and relaxed in your environment you will look more like you do belong, and it will be less likely for someone to try and intimidate you.  Hence the importance of your response to "You know this is the woman's restroom?" By asking you that question the asker is trying to create an opening. You want to nip the bud before it grows. Make sure your answer gives the impression that you know very well what you are doing. Be polite when answering the question, look the person in the eye. keep the answer short, and after you answer go back to what you were doing. Even if what you were doing was staring at a wall. This gives the impression that you don't feel like talking and leaves little room for the conversation to continue. If they ask again, simply repeat your first answer more firmly.  I think at this point only the persistent or the aggressive would continue. 

Don't spend anymore time in the restroom then you need to. The less time you spend the less access others have to question you or start harassing you and the less time you have to endure they're stares. Don't rush though, since it will make you seem like you are uncomfortable and tense. Once you are out of the restroom don't get hung up too much on what happened in there. All you did was your business, like everyone else does in the bathroom.

When something isn't where it belongs, it's human nature to wonder WHY it's there. So women automatically try and figure out what a man's intensions are for being in the women's restroom. The possibility the man is a pervert will cross their mind. Plus the man in their eyes is a rule breaker aka unpredictable, they can't tell how far the man will go. It's similar to the way you'd react if there was a random bear in the restroom, how likely is it that you are not going to keep your eye on it. I don't know if the reaction to a women in men's restroom is the similar, doesn't seem that way. Women seem to have a much easier time using the mens restroom. Maybe because women don't seem to be much of a threat.  A good time to do so is when there's a long line in front of the girl's bathroom. I've seen women in dresses casually use the mens restroom because they don't want to wait. Another reason you can give for being a women in the mens restroom, is that the women restroom was really messy/gross.

You might want try having a buddy with you in the restroom. If there is already someone that is accepting of a man in the restroom, the others may follow suit.

These are all theories and ideas, since I have yet to have a chance to pass as a male. Does it seem right?

I have somewhat the same problem but opposite. I don't agree that men are accepting to what ever walks in the restroom. I usually use a stall if I need to go. When I walk out of stall, if anyone's in restroom I have received some awkward and scary looks.

My evolution of restroom use.

Cross dressing- oh lets go to the girls room, that will prove I pass, if not oh well.

Come to realization I am transgendered, but still present male 100%- Ewww I hate using this mens bathroom, if only I could use the correct restroom.

In transition- Have no problem using womens room when presenting correct gender.

On hrt 1 1/2 not out yet present male somewhat androgynous Avoid using mens room at ALL cost, use unisex if available I have used women's room if I sense that I should but I don't present female 100% so this is awkward too.

When going someplace I try to empty bladder right before leaving, but with my coffee drinking and Spiro I usually can't last more then an hour.

Shelly

I would say stand outside of the bathroom (either pace around or if there's a water fountain, take a few sips) and try to determine if there's anybody in the bathroom. Make a determination of what bathroom has nobody in it or would be more appropriate.

Quote from: Nygeel on April 27, 2011, 10:30:59 PM
I would say stand outside of the bathroom (either pace around or if there's a water fountain, take a few sips) and try to determine if there's anybody in the bathroom.

I do this at work.  If anyone is around that location I drink at the water fountain.  When the coast is clear I peek into the women's and if it's clear I hurry in and to a stall.  I would prefer to use the men's but I have to talk to my boss first and I just haven't had the nerve to talk to him yet.

Quote from: Andy8715 on April 27, 2011, 11:18:41 PM
I do this at work.  If anyone is around that location I drink at the water fountain.  When the coast is clear I peek into the women's and if it's clear I hurry in and to a stall.  I would prefer to use the men's but I have to talk to my boss first and I just haven't had the nerve to talk to him yet.

Do your coworkers know you as male or female?

Well, I would tell you to try out the men's bathroom and see how it goes, except I'd feel like a hypocrite because I'm too scared to do it myself. 

I've set myself on a cycle of bathroom trips (don't ask how I did it; I honestly don't know), so that I never have to go to the bathroom at school. I go in the morning, and then I don't have to go again until I get home, except on the rare occasion. This way, I only have to use the bathroom if there's an emergency.

They know I'm a trans male and are working on calling me he/Andy and are doing really good and only slip up minimally.  Additionally I've gotten questions about why i'm still in the women's, plus once a customer caught me in there and was like "oh this is the women's" and then led me to the men's room. 

I know how you feel - it's always with the bathroom that passing suddenly becomes so much easier I usually do what others in this thread have mentioned; I puff out my chest and do my best to look feminine. Maybe you could try using the men's just once - pick a quiet time, and just do it like you own the place. It doesn't work out? If you're in public, you'll never see them again, so no worries. If you think it could get nasty, though, just wait until you do start passing more often. I know I wouldn't follow my own advice where I live.

My suggestion is to give it a shot, at a relatively safe place. A lot of that depends on your area, but trying it in a bar probably isn't the best idea regardless of where you are. Unless it's a gay bar maybe. I don't know.

I was scared as hell of using the guy's room at first but I realized I just could not piss in the ladies room anymore. Like, physically couldn't make myself piss. Which has never been an issue. I've yet to get a weird look. I actually had more trouble before I was trying to pass using the women's room, honestly. I'd gotten a lot of weird stares and bitchy comments while I was in high school because I looked so masculine.

The best way to do it, in my opinion, is either late at night/early in the morning, or doing exactly what Nygeel said. Try to get in one that's empty or nearly so. I don't go out much during the day, so there's usually next to no one in the bathrooms when I do need them. The more you do it, you'll get used to it eventually.

Also, echoing what other people have already said, try to figure out exactly what it is that's keeping you from passing most of the time. If it's a look thing, find some way to remedy it (or at least take attention away from it). If it's a movement/mannerism thing, work on that.

While not all would be exactly cool with it, most guys I know wouldn't have a beef with someone they perceive not to be male using the men's room. If necessary, although I wouldn't do this cause I'm stubborn, but if you were questioned and had to save yourself from a bad situation, just say sorry, the other restroom was full.

I was once on a road trip with a gender queer AFAB and they got yelled at no matter which rest room they picked.
There was also a shy MTF who waited for a single-occupancy restroom.
I just used the women's restroom.

There are some clubs that only have one big restroom with <unmentionable masculine porcelain devices> and stalls.
I was at a club and it looked like this was one of them.
I wandered just inside the open doorway and saw the <unmentionable masculine porcelain devices>.
I kind of stood like a deer caught in the headlights until a few guys turned around and said, "Next door over."

Here's another perspective to restroom issues. I was using the men's one day and it looked like a female was in there when I left the stall. I actually froze because I wondered what a woman was doing there. Then I freaked out because I thought I went into the wrong bathroom (which was even scarier). Then I saw the urinals.

I'm still not sure if the person was a woman, an early MTF or an early FTM testing the waters. Don't worry, once you're on T for awhile you'll never have this problem again.

since the question came up, i used male bathrooms in california and new york and germany before i cut my hair short. i also used male bathrooms in california, england, germany and the netherlands when looking distinctively female to avoid standing in line for the ladies room.
pretty much all of those were at bars, shows, star bucks or fast food chains.
i think for someone to say something when they're unsure of your gender you'd need at least two determiners - "lower class" kinda  place and a good deal of alcohol.
if you do decide to give it a shot, the bathrooms at target, starbucks, places like that, and daytime is what i would recommend. because in case you pass as very young, you wouldn't be the only kid around.