I'm under a doctors care and have been on spiro for many years. Even before transition six years ago I'd been taking it for fluid retention for years. It worked fine for all it its roles until a month ago.
I had liver transplant surgery and now take an immunosuppresant that doesn't mix with spiro. Androcure is an even worse alternative. My research has led me to a newer class of drugs. That are dht conversion inhibitors. Avodart and propecia are 2 that looked like promising alternatives to spiro. Avodart seeme___d the most promising and I was wondering if anyone has ezperience with either of these drug.

BTW, I have more dctors than Carter has pills. I have a partnership with them and do a lot of the research to balannce my complicated and conflicting healthcare needs.

Yow! A liver transplant?

If you are serious about transition I'd recommend strongly consider an immediate orchiectomy or SRS.

You're already down one liver, I'd be really careful with meds.

I'VE been fulltime for 6 years. I've been a transplant patient 40 days. If I could find an easy way to post a superscript 2 I'd change my ID to trans squared!
I don't do anything without the approval of a half dozen doctors. My role is that of a scout. I find possibilities and present them to my primary care, shrink and TX team. Thanks for your input though. I'm hoping to hear from people that have used this form of therapy. Spiro boosts potassium levels as does another drug called Prograf. Potassium is integral in the regulation of the heart rythum. Too much can lead to cardiac arythmia followed by cardiac arrest. Not good. If there aren't a set of defrib padals handy (and someone that knows how to use them) it could easily be adios Muchacha.
What I want to know is did Avodart maintain T levels the same as those of a menstruating female and what if any side effects were experienced. If you have liver disease Androcure is pretty much off the table.

A plug for the docs: Without labs there is no way of knowing if the therapy is effective and the only way to get those is through an MD. Coming out is terrifying for us. Your MD and her staff are bound by federal law, HIPPA, from disclosing information about you.

Your MD may surprise you, too! I went to a womens' clinic for my initial evaluation and prescription. Shortly thereafter I disclosed my intentions to my PC doc. She said she'd had some incling that something was up with me and that if I wanted she would be happy to take over managing my HRT.  When the time for legal name and gender change arrived she wrote a statement to the court supporting my gender change application. I got it despite no SRS. (No competent doctor would operate on a patient with extended pro-time and a platelette count of 65 k). I got it too! My story was presented at a conference of attorneys as a 'how to' strategy.  Thank you Dr.s B & K

A combination of half a serving of soy based diet and black tea daily is 5% more stronger than propecia in inhibiting DHT with no side effects of drug-based therapy.

I think this is unique and is new for me, would u give me more detail information about this?
how to make them?, this is really interesting , indeed beside is it 5% more stronger than propecia 5mg (sorry write with dosage, because propecia has 2 kind of dosages, 1mg and 5mg, in this case, I do not know which one the meaning of this artice)?

if I'm wrong write with dosage, I'm so sorry and remove this post please...

Thanks in advanced. 

Quote from: JoyceChin on May 06, 2011, 03:37:55 AM
A combination of half a serving of soy based diet and black tea daily is 5% more stronger than propecia in inhibiting DHT with no side effects of drug-based therapy.

I'm still unclear of the propecia dosage. Here's a different source :

"Black Tea consumption, according to this study done on mice at Harvard University lowered DHT levels by 72% and raised testosterone by 35%. Finasteride, (Propecia/Proscar) reduces DHT levels in both male humans and rats by 70%.

Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the
Soy Phytochemicals and Tea Bioactive Components Synergistically Inhibit Androgen-Sensitive Human Prostate Tumors in Mice1

Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA


ABSTRACT

Although high doses of single bioactive agents may have potent anticancer effects, the chemopreventive properties of the Asian diet may result from interactions among several components that potentiate the activities of any single constituent. In Asia, where intake of soy products and tea consumption are very high, aggressive prostate cancer is significantly less prevalent in Asian men. The objective of the present study was to identify possible synergistic effects between soy and tea components on prostate tumor progression in a mouse model of orthotopic androgen-sensitive human prostate cancer. Soy phytochemical concentrate (SPC), black tea and green tea were compared with respect to tumorigenicity rate, primary tumor growth, tumor proliferation index and microvessel density, serum androgen level and metastases to lymph nodes. SPC, black tea and green tea significantly reduced tumorigenicity. SPC and black tea also significantly reduced final tumor weights. Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. The combination of SPC and black tea synergistically inhibited prostate tumorigenicity, final tumor weight and metastases to lymph nodes in vivo. The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo. Inhibition of tumor progression was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation and tumor angiogenesis. This study suggests that further research is warranted to study the role of soy and tea combination as effective nutritional regimens in prostate cancer prevention.

Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the entire study including this revealing snippet:


Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations.

揗ice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5 -reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT.�

This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.

The implications of potential benefits to humans with Androgenetic Alopecia are profound.

It would appear reasonable based upon these findings that exclusive consumption of Black Tea or Black Tea Extract (Theaflavins) would likely reduce serum DHT to the same level as Propecia, and that the concurrent consumption of Soy Isoflavones or Soy Isoflavones with Green Tea would produce an additive effect. The effects of Black Tea Theaflavins /Soy Isoflaones, or Black Tea Theaflavins/Soy Isoflavones/Green Tea, on testosterone levels remain unclear."
<snip>

Really great information sister JoyceChin, thank you so much 

Quote from: JoyceChin on May 11, 2011, 06:50:23 AM
I'm still unclear of the propecia dosage. Here's a different source :

"Black Tea consumption, according to this study done on mice at Harvard University lowered DHT levels by 72% and raised testosterone by 35%. Finasteride, (Propecia/Proscar) reduces DHT levels in both male humans and rats by 70%.

Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the
Soy Phytochemicals and Tea Bioactive Components Synergistically Inhibit Androgen-Sensitive Human Prostate Tumors in Mice1

Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA


ABSTRACT

Although high doses of single bioactive agents may have potent anticancer effects, the chemopreventive properties of the Asian diet may result from interactions among several components that potentiate the activities of any single constituent. In Asia, where intake of soy products and tea consumption are very high, aggressive prostate cancer is significantly less prevalent in Asian men. The objective of the present study was to identify possible synergistic effects between soy and tea components on prostate tumor progression in a mouse model of orthotopic androgen-sensitive human prostate cancer. Soy phytochemical concentrate (SPC), black tea and green tea were compared with respect to tumorigenicity rate, primary tumor growth, tumor proliferation index and microvessel density, serum androgen level and metastases to lymph nodes. SPC, black tea and green tea significantly reduced tumorigenicity. SPC and black tea also significantly reduced final tumor weights. Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. The combination of SPC and black tea synergistically inhibited prostate tumorigenicity, final tumor weight and metastases to lymph nodes in vivo. The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo. Inhibition of tumor progression was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation and tumor angiogenesis. This study suggests that further research is warranted to study the role of soy and tea combination as effective nutritional regimens in prostate cancer prevention.

Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the entire study including this revealing snippet:


Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations.

揗ice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5 -reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT.�

This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.

The implications of potential benefits to humans with Androgenetic Alopecia are profound.

It would appear reasonable based upon these findings that exclusive consumption of Black Tea or Black Tea Extract (Theaflavins) would likely reduce serum DHT to the same level as Propecia, and that the concurrent consumption of Soy Isoflavones or Soy Isoflavones with Green Tea would produce an additive effect. The effects of Black Tea Theaflavins /Soy Isoflaones, or Black Tea Theaflavins/Soy Isoflavones/Green Tea, on testosterone levels remain unclear."
<snip>