Transitioning is NOT a Decision.

http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2011/05/transitioning-is-not-decision.html
5/6/11
By Elizabeth

There has to be something in the water because there is another expert coming forward on T-Central to give a dissertation on transitioning and it is of such importance the resident nitwits at T-Central have featured it. There is only one problem with the resident expert. This person has not transitioned yet unless it is after May 24, 2011 which is their official transition date.

    Plenty of us that will tell you they made a right decision.

How does this person know it was the right decision and will end up being the correct decision when they have not even made their fateful plunge into the world as a woman?

Transition IS a choice.

You choose to do it or not and whatever the outcome with any of those roads might lead.


But what you DONT choose is to have the feelings that made you think of transition (gender dysphoria) That if you left those feelings stay there and you dont do something well they might made you unhappy.

You dont choose to be born with what you were born or to feel the way you feel. Thats innate.


But you choose what road to take, where to stop and when to start.

And for some, its transition or die thats one interesting choice dont you think?

I just so happen to be one of those "transition or die" types, kinda. Last night, actually, I made a comment to somebody, I'm not sure what they're username is, but their nick in the chat was Rabbit, that I would sooner jump on top of a live grenade than spend a day longer in the body of a male than I have too.

It's really important to me that I transition as quickly, yet safely, as I can so that I don't have to be a male longer than I have to.

Transitioning ultimately becomes a choice of being who you are vs. playing the game by being someone you are not just to fit in. Sadly, much of the world expects you to play this game which is why some people have such a hard time beginning a transition. With me, it became a snowball effect. I never really started becoming "more feminine" but simply shed the false masculine shell that was there what little of it there was. Some people set dates they are going to go full time. With me, I had considered doing that but my appearance had already been changing anyway, and I simply couldn't hold on to the "boy side" any longer so I let it go. At this point, I don't think I could even get it back if I tried because it was never me in the first place.

What a weird article. I had so much trouble following it that I had to read it backwards to get her drift. But I'm an odd bird, so I guess it could have just been me.

It sounds like two transitioners at opposite ends of the age spectrum that have been somehow attacked by each other's group.

I don't agree with either of them in total. Typically someone has to want to transition to put themselves through it, else they would wither away and die of dysphoria somewhere. Then there are those who have it easy and do it without GID punching them in the stomach for decades, hardening them against the world. It's easier for them to experience a euphoria about transition.

In any case, it's your life.

I did choose to transition. The choice was made under duress but I choose it.

I have to respectfully disagree with a lot of the assertions made in this thread about the "choice" issue. Left with whether to live or to die, is not a legitimate choice! When you've reached the point that death is necessary over living, you've made a determination that is as inalterable as that of having SRS.

If you feel that you must die; that part of our experience as being transsexual really has nothing to do with transition. If one is determined to not live any longer; it is a result of being depressed. It's because of the lack of support, the uncertainty of being successful (which is really simple fear of the unknown), the discrimination, the ridicule, the bullying and the ostracizing that all to often occurs as a factor of being known as transsexual.

If you are transsexual, you WILL transition.  It's not a choice. It just is what it is, being who you really know yourself to be. It's is something you MUST do, not something you could, kinda', sorta', maybe do (those represent a choice).

Where I part company with the author of the blog is when she leaves no room for those that transition, yet have not for whatever reason, obtained the corrective surgery. There are a multitude of reasons for not having surgery. And I do not feel that you should be invalidated as being transsexual based upon the lack of completion, and/or reaching the ultimate goal of having received surgery as a late transitioner. But, I digress.

Once again, the issue of having a choice in being who you are and/or transitioning; there is simply no such thing.


Dawn

transitioning is not all about changing your name, dressing in the clothes that match your gender identity, taking cross sex hormones, and eventually getting srs. to say that is very superficial. there's many more ways people express their transition. i know i've done it. i simply don't believe in only being a male or only a female. that is very unrealistic. how you express your gender identity can manifest itself in many ways.

Quote from: SpaceyGirl on May 09, 2011, 08:05:47 PM
transitioning is not all about changing your name, dressing in the clothes that match your gender identity, taking cross sex hormones, and eventually getting srs. to say that is very superficial. there's many more ways people express their transition. i know i've done it. i simply don't believe in only being a male or only a female. that is very unrealistic. how you express your gender identity can manifest itself in many ways.

What a bunch of nonsense. If you are comfortable living a gender variant life, that is fine. The topic as I read it was about a transsexual transition. Transsexualism is a medical condition of being born in the wrong sex, with the brain of one sex, and the body of the other. It is not a "gender identity" or "gender expression." Don't tell me that there is no such thing as being "only female" or "only male." You are wrong. For you to come here and tell me that I and others with a transsexual medical condition would have it that being "only one gender" is "very unrealistic" is a bunch of BS and is an attack on who we are. And who are you to call these steps that I and others take to have the bodies we were always meant to be "superficial." Stop misrepresenting and attacking our medical condition. It is not a lifestyle nor an identity but a birth defect. If you are happy with your gender and sex, that is fine. Some of us are not and need those medical and legal procedures to correct those things.

I did not choose to be a transgendered person, I am who I am and always will be... I have how ever chosen to live as the person I am

In light of my very own special personal hell, I will not be told that I am not making an intelligent, healthy, wise decision. I will agree to disagree.

Those who do not have the history of feeling the inner torture because the core identity does not match the vessel carrying that identity will NEVER grasp that the need is neither a decision nor a choice.  Well, I guess one could call it a choice with regard to whether one chooses to live or die...which is to say it is NOT a choice or decision. 

This was NEVER about being able to play dress-up.  It was ALWAYS about addressing a medical condition.  Some of us DO subscribe to the binary constructs.  I am NOT a 'transgendered' person and never was.  I AM a lesbian with a previous transsexual condition that was remedied MANY years ago via medical/surgical intervention.       

Britney nails it with her comments. 

Quote from: Britney_413 on May 10, 2011, 03:52:22 AM
What a bunch of nonsense. If you are comfortable living a gender variant life, that is fine. The topic as I read it was about a transsexual transition. Transsexualism is a medical condition of being born in the wrong sex, with the brain of one sex, and the body of the other. It is not a "gender identity" or "gender expression." Don't tell me that there is no such thing as being "only female" or "only male." You are wrong. For you to come here and tell me that I and others with a transsexual medical condition would have it that being "only one gender" is "very unrealistic" is a bunch of BS and is an attack on who we are. And who are you to call these steps that I and others take to have the bodies we were always meant to be "superficial." Stop misrepresenting and attacking our medical condition. It is not a lifestyle nor an identity but a birth defect. If you are happy with your gender and sex, that is fine. Some of us are not and need those medical and legal procedures to correct those things.

Amen, sister!

Quote from: Dawn D. on May 10, 2011, 10:52:36 AM


Amen, sister!

Seconded

I'm not at all certain that SpaceyGirl was attacking anyone. I think an emotionally fuelled reaction, or the internet nature of trying to interpret someone else's point of view when you only have the bare words to make sense of, has possibly led to a misunderstanding on certain points.

She didn't say that there is no such thing as being only male or only female, only that she doesn't believe in it. That's open to interpretation, and as it relates to herself and her feelings about herself, who's to say that her beliefs are invalid? Certainly no more or less than anyone else's feelings about themselves. She did not say that no one can be only male or only female.

And also, she didn't call the steps taken by people to transition 'superficial', she actually said that to say that taking those steps is all transition is about, is superficial.

This is the trouble with forums, the meaning is often lost in the words. Britney_413, I understand totally where you're coming from, but I think you may be seeing an attack which isn't there.

Let's try and keep it civil, folks.

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 10, 2011, 12:39:20 PM
Edit: You all do realize that SpaceyGirl is 19 right? Not that that necessarily makes a difference, but...

In a word: NO. 

But hey, thanks for reminding me again that I probably made the right choice walking away from the 'gender community' back in the 90s when I had my medical condition remedied...

Medical/surgical intervention allowed the vessel to match the core identity.  To say that HRT and surgery was simply superficial is the biggest crock of crap I have ever heard/read in quite some time. 

Quote from: Virginia M on May 10, 2011, 04:38:59 AM
I did not choose to be a transgendered person, I am who I am and always will be... I have how ever chosen to live as the person I am

This sums it up perfectly for me - thx Virginia!

Years of internal conflict between knowing who I was and am, and what others perceived and expected me to be, has cost me hours, days, months, years of guilt, regret, fear, anxiety, confusion, self-pity which I will never get back.

But that's in the past. I am FINALLY embracing the feminine identity I buried every chance I had.

I am choosing to live the rest of my life as a woman. That's my right and my decision.

Quote from: Sephirah on May 10, 2011, 12:11:42 PM
I'm not at all certain that SpaceyGirl was attacking anyone. I think an emotionally fuelled reaction, or the internet nature of trying to interpret someone else's point of view when you only have the bare words to make sense of, has possibly led to a misunderstanding on certain points.

She didn't say that there is no such thing as being only male or only female, only that she doesn't believe in it. That's open to interpretation, and as it relates to herself and her feelings about herself, who's to say that her beliefs are invalid? Certainly no more or less than anyone else's feelings about themselves. She did not say that no one can be only male or only female.

And also, she didn't call the steps taken by people to transition 'superficial', she actually said that to say that taking those steps is all transition is about, is superficial.

This is the trouble with forums, the meaning is often lost in the words. Britney_413, I understand totally where you're coming from, but I think you may be seeing an attack which isn't there.

Let's try and keep it civil, folks.

well, thank you... that's exactly what i meant. my only point was to try and say that gender is much more than just those things, so i think all of us do fortify our genders from very early in our lives. i'm supporting that transitioning is not a decision. we all handle the dysphoria  in our own way, and i see that as an expression of an individual. you had to think a little to get the idea of what i said. gender is much more than just what's on the surface.

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 10, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
Well it would be if she'd actually said that. To elaborate on Sephirah's point, Spacey said, though rather unclearly due to her odd punctuation, that to limit the concept of transition to only these set things (dress, name change, hormones, srs) is superficial. I.e. she is arguing not that SRS and HRT are unimportant, but that they are not all that is important. She is using "superficial" in that context to mean "incomplete"  - not "meaningless," as you and others assumed. The piece you missed was the "all about," which is what "superficial" modifies, without that your interpretation would have been correct.

To continue with the translation, she then goes on to say "there's many more ways people express their transition." Again confirming her argument that the above items (dress, name change, hormones, srs) are an incomplete picture of transition. She also indicates here that she is not saying that this is the case for everyone. The way the sentence is worded, she is only saying that for at least some people, transition can be different than the above list of items ("more ways" - indicates alternatives, not replacements). The addition of "i know i've done it" again confirms that she is trying to broaden rather than shift the concept of transition - mainly in order to include herself.

The next line which seems to bother you all so much "only being a male or only a female. that is very unrealistic" is certainly somewhat unclear. But given the context of the preceding line "i know i've done it," and the following line "how you express your gender identity can manifest itself in many ways." The indication is that she means that the gender binary is not for everyone, and not that the gender binary is not for anyone. I think the reverse interpretation is much more of a stretch, as nothing previously indicates such a belief - and the "many ways" implies an openness to a variety of ways of being, which should include binary identities as well.

What you and Dawn D. and JessicaR and Britney_413 have done is take an unclear passage written by a teenager who is trying to indicate that her own transition is not the same as everyone else's and interpreted it through the lens of your ongoing confrontation with certain transgender advocates who believe that all gender identity is fluid. The "crock of crap" here is all in your own heads. You are, frankly, acting like bullies.

Really I shouldn't get involved and should just leave you to your... questionable behaviour, but I guess reading too many fantasy books as a kid has made me believe I'm a knight errant. So shove off you black-hearted villains.

If the text isn't clear, how about next time you ask politely for a clarification?

On the other side of things - SpaceyGirl, people would have a rather easier time understanding you, if you at least tried to write in complete sentences. My poor editor's soul is traumatized by what the internet is doing to writing.

thank you for that. in the first sentence i used the commas because i was trying to make a series of things. i try to watch carefully of that.

Sarah7 said,

QuoteWhat you and Dawn D. and JessicaR and Britney_413 have done is take an unclear passage written by a teenager who is trying to indicate that her own transition is not the same as everyone else's and interpreted it through the lens of your ongoing confrontation with certain transgender advocates who believe that all gender identity is fluid. The "crock of crap" here is all in your own heads. You are, frankly, acting like bullies.

With all due respect, Sarah, you are unfairly categorizing me. (I'll only speak for my self as I do not know any of the others in the list you gave). Whether or not Spaceygirl is a teenager is really irrelevant. In taking what she wrote at it's core face value, deducting for the fact that you cannot read the inflection in her head a she wrote it, her comment was more of a poo-pooing in the thought that transition is a very important aspect of being transsexual. If she wishes to embrace her gender identity as that of being "fluid" I have no problem with that. I don't judge her or anyone else in their "choice". Her comments were not just about her as you might wish for us to believe, they were quite easily seen to be transmitted toward all of us.

What I would consider as devaluing another persons irrefutable need to transition as being superficial, regardless of that persons gender identity, or medical issue, is superfluous. For a transsexual what she described:

Quotetransitioning is not all about changing your name, dressing in the clothes that match your gender identity, taking cross sex hormones, and eventually getting srs.

, is anything but superficial! For these reasons and others we have to transition and identify in the binary. It's just in the core of who we are.

If she feels it's superficial for her needs, that's fine. But, suggesting that as a overall general assumption, is not.

Further, she states:

Quotei simply don't believe in only being a male or only a female. that is very unrealistic

.

It may be unrealistic in her evaluation. It is not so, in mine. And, once again. I do not judge her for her "choice" to express her gender in whatever manner is appropriate for her/him, since it seems she's neither completely. Yet, I am a woman only! And, as such, it is completely realistic to be only female.

Now, I don't believe I've taken her out of context in any way. Yes, she's young. No, she doesn't get a pass for her opinion's based upon her youth. If anything, this is a teachable moment, and I feel this has been represented fairly, respectfully and honestly.


As for reading inflection,

Quote"The "crock of crap" here is all in your own heads. You are, frankly, acting like bullies."

I don't think I like your tone. LOL! It's not "bullying" to make an assessment of someone else's writing unless there are chastisements and threatening advancements incorporated into the dialog. I have never "bullied" anyone and never would. My discourse is always done so with respect of the other person's feelings. Or, at least that is my intent. I have called a few people out for what they have written, mostly away from this sight, and I have been accused of 'attacking' at least one blogers writing. After careful analysis of such, I apologized to her. Publicly. If I'm wrong, I'm a big enough girl to admit so. But, in this instance I feel you've stepped over the line in such accusations. My kinsmen-ship of Britney's comments, were and are a reflection of how I perceived what was written by Spaceygirl. There's no disrespect in that. Even if she is young.



Dawn