I was just reading a "Dear Abby" column were a transsexual in transition needed a letter of passage from her therapist in order to use the proper restrooms, etc. without getting into any problems. This was something that I never thought about, but I now guess that it is part of the process of transition. I'll be talking with my new therapist about this aspect soon.

Gina

Hello Gina,

The letter is probably for her work place where she would be required present it to her HR Dept to prove that she was trans and had a legitimate requirement to use the female washrooms.

Just my thoughts,

Steph

My take on that whole issue...is who in their right mind would question us(at least directly) on whether or not we're using the correct washrooms?!?!?! I personally only use the female restrooms when I am dressed as such(still living part time). I've not once run into conflict....and I've gone into quite a few women's restrooms in public. I do it automatically. My point is... who is going to go up to you and say "Uhm, Sir, ma'am, whatever you are, I need to see your genitals before you can use that restroom."

Sorry,......I had to say alll that.

Errrr...actually...after I hit the post button, I realize now what the article was talking about. It's talking about "traveling papers." Not all girls are able to get the proper photo ID's to match what they look like...at least not right away. My friend Jacki for instance. She's been living full time for almost 10 years now...but beccause our state is so backwards, her drivers license is still in the OLD NAME and OLD SEX. Therefore, she has what are called "traveling papers" which is basically a letter from her doctor saying that she is a transexual.

Hey there Kelli,

To get back to your first post.  In some instances, employers who have someone who is transitioning in the work place as I have recently done, may want proof that this is what they actually are.  Don't forget that a lot of people at work would know that the person was of the opposite sex, and may not agree with or want to share washroom facilities with them.  So unless the workplace is progressive and has safe guards in place such as our company does, a trans person would be left out in the cold.

Steph

I thought that they put doors on cubicles for a reason. You would thinkit was really a non issue or it should be anyway. When I got o Uni all the facilities are unisex including showers. Each is in a seperate cubicle so unless they have female urinals it shouldn't be a problem.

When will the world move on to more serious issues.

Shelley

Then there are the areas in Europe, Japan and others where the washrooms are combined.  And you don't have to worry about which one to go in.

Sarah

They're obviously more progressive than some of the US states that won't even allow a change of name on a licence.

Shelley

First to reply to  Stephanie; I don't think that this person was doing it for the work only, but more say not to have any problem with using public washrooms. Kelly, I'm really gald that you haven't run into any problems. Last year, I went to use a woman's washroom while dressed and I was accosted for it and was told that I could have been arrested for it.    I understand what you mean by them not checking your genitals, but people can still be a little leary about certain people and it can make them feel a little uncomfortable.

Gina

Ahh, ok. I understand the workplace scenario now.

My psych gave me one of those letters. I stuck it in a filing cabinet and haven't brought it out once. I've often thought it could be a double edged sword. If someone finds it on you (like cops or customs searching or, god forbid, you drop it by accident), then it outs you whether you've been clocked or not. I wouldn't carry one because of that.

Mind you, where I live, it's illegal to deny me access to the washroom that matches my gender identity, so it's not like I'm going to get in trouble for using the men's room. And I doubt that a letter is going to stop someone beating me up who clocks me and is offended that I'm there.

Dennis

Same here, I got a "carry letter" when I first transitioned, but quit carrying it after about six months.

Sarah

I gotta agree with Dennis.  If you pass, it is a non issue as nobody is going to notice or care, but if you don't, then letter or no letter you are still going to cause a commotion and hard feelings.  As to workplace issues, yes, if employees have known you before the transition process and have watched you in progress then they know whats afoot and yes, it's nice to have documentaion that you are for real and not just some flaky guy wanting into the womens room, and yes, it does make a difference who's in which, like it or not and all pylosophical issues aside.

In the workplace, letter or no letter and legal right or not, one has to consider the feelings of the people worked with and what that is worth to you.  I know that in my workplace where they have watched the whole thing over the last few years, there are still a few women who think the whole idea is atrocious and even though my documentation comes from our companies own psychs it just isn't possible and will always feel I'm male, regardless of the consistantcy and opinion of other workmates and would fight to keep me out of the public ladies room if I cared to use it, but because we have non gender rooms in public areas and in every Med unit, I simply use those instead to prevent conflict until surgery at which time I could tell any person objecting to fly a toilet paper kite as at that point, I will be no different, which I can't really say at this time with the evidence hanging down.  Actually, nothing is stoping me right now other then regard for the feelings of others, even if they don't accept me as female and the fact that with the non gender rooms, no point in pressing the issue with them while still pre-op.  As far as company policy and california law though, I can do as I please.

In strickly public areas off work I used to use mens rooms if the boys liked it or not, but these days womens rooms are ok with me as what they don't know won't hurt them and if anyone were to question anything, ALL my identification is in female name and gender.  I did get letters for my workplace right from the start and have periodically had them updated, just for my department manager and personnel files so he can field any complaints about me, but there have been none now for the last year or so, but in the beginning, he was constantly flooded with phone calls about me and what the hey was going on?

And hey Dennis, YOU would get into trouble entering a Womens Room ..... All the ladies would be asking to borrow my "Brick" if they don't have one themselves ......

Terri

lol yeah, just before chest surgery when I wasn't really aware that I was passing yet, I had two unpleasant incidents going into the women's room. And that was unbound, wearing my boobs. Luckily nobody hit me with their handbag.

I had a weird experience with passing. Just suddenly happened one day, everyone took me as male, and it has continued since then. Because I didn't plan it, it kind of caught me unaware and I wasn't really prepared to start using men's rooms, so I went to gas stations a lot to use their bathrooms.

Dennis

I'm not quite sure why the rest of the world has a problem with this.  Even females have problems using public women's restrooms.  Case in point, when I was still  in high school  I was out and about with some of my friends (forget where, but that is rather irrelevant) and needed to use the bathroom.  Since there should be nothing wrong with a female using the women's restroom (even though at the time I had a rather short hair cut, and was wearing baggy clothes and a Colts hat), I entered.  A woman was exiting when i entered.  She stopped me, and rather coldly asked, "excuse me sir, but are you here to clean the restrooms?  No.  Are you lost?  You know this is for women only, right?"  I don't think that a letter of passage would do much good...especially since that would have been my birth certificate.  Though, I guess the lesson that I learned was that I can pass without even trying.   

--KyleW

Please understand that I mean no disrespect to anyone and would not want to hurt anyone's feelings but, as I was reading this thread, I had an image flash into my mind that lefft me in stitches!

It's a typical day in the office. As often happens, a number of us run into each other in the ladies room around coffee break. Some are in the stalls, some washing their hands, some touching up their hair or their makeup or straighteneing their clothes. Others are standing around having "girlie cconversations", the kind that go one away from men.

Suddenly a HUGE burly guy steps through the door! He's 6' 6", built like a linebacker, 2 days of stubble on his chin, dressed like a logger, and carries himself like Bigfoot 

When the washroom goes silent and he sees the shocked faces around him, he says "It's ok girls, I've got a letter." and heads into a stall. The room empties as if someone had thrown in a family of skunks! EVERYBODY bails, regardless of their "state of dis-repair"!

The moral of the story (when I finished laughing!) is that it is about comfort and safety.

In a public situation, the ladies room is a refuge, especially so in the office. It's a place where you don't have to worry about someone gawking at you while you are in a state of semi-dress or have to do something private.

It isn't so much about the law as it is about respecting that sense of refuge. If women feel their privacy has been violated, they WILL be angry.

Even I would bail from that washroom if I was not comfortable with the state of someone's "female-ness".

{Hope nobody takes offense}

The person that wrote this needs more therapy than I ever did.

http://bc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/6466/index.php

                           It was great to see that all but 2 responses were against this "woman" who, if we changed a few adjectives and nouns would sound exactly like the most racist redneck I have ever heard.  I am pretty sure one of the 2 agreeing with her is a homophobic man anyway.

beth

OH MY GAWD!

You'd think this was 1950 and we were talking race!

This is one SICK individual.

(Left my comment!)

So since when did the restroom become some secret right of passage that only a select few could enter. Gee I just wanted to pee not get crucified. Is this a sorority thing somebody forgot to tell me about. I didn't know my waste functions were going to harm some vestal virgins

Cassie