Alright, so I've been pretty into hockey for about half a year and now I want to play. I want to play on a guys' team, as I am one, but don't know how that would go over with my parents, the coach and other players if they find out that I'm trans.

I'm not out yet, and I know that would have to come before hockey, but how should I go about joining the team, telling the coach and possibly teammates?

Alright, I'm adding some more information because of what Sean pointed out (thanks for doing that, by the way). I'll be a sophomore in high school next year, and I don't have much hockey experience but I am a good skater. I'll be in New York state, too, pretty close to Canada.

I don't think I'd play on the school team (I know I'm not good enough for varsity and there's no JV there), so recreational is the way to go. Is it easier to get on recreational teams? I've only played on girls' soccer rec teams, so I'm fairly clueless.

It's unlikely you would be able to play hockey on a boys team at your age.  The leagues that I'm familiar with seperate the boys and girls once they allow checking (for safety reasons) which is usually around 9 or 10.

Actually, there's a fair chance you'd be allowed on a boys' team - it's the other way around that would be tricky. But you need to make absolutely sure you have your parents' full support, because you'll need them to stand up for you. How you do that is up to you. My dad got me onto a boys' baseball team without knowing I was trans, just because it was what I wanted and nobody was stopping his daughter from doing anything she wanted to do. You may need to do a little more convincing, depending on your parents' personalities.

Once your parents are on board, it's up to them to talk to the league. As for teammates, it's up to you whether to try to go stealth or not...I'd generally suggest "not" if you're late teens and pre-T.

Quote from: piers816 on May 22, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
Alright, so I've been pretty into hockey for about half a year and now I want to play. I want to play on a guys' team, as I am one, but don't know how that would go over with my parents, the coach and other players if they find out that I'm trans.

I'm not out yet, and I know that would have to come before hockey, but how should I go about joining the team, telling the coach and possibly teammates?

Without knowing the age bracket you'd be playing (are you still in school? under 18? etc) and without knowing where you live, it's impossible for anyone to give you a clear picture of the situation. I will speak more generally. You can PM me if you have other questions.

The reality is that girls can play on boys sports teams in many circumstances (as kyril noted). So transitioning or coming out is not a requirement for competing with other boys. However, you don't say if you want to compete at a level that requires try-outs or some level of experience. You also don't mention if you have any prior ability (like skating) that would make you able to compete at your own age - with anyone of any gender. The checking thing is very real - boys hockey introduces checking (the age differs based on the region anywhere between 9 and 12) - and while there ARE girls who play checking hockey, they don't START doing so having never played before (boys wouldn't start then either). They are already playing hockey and then continue to play with boys. It's dangerous to put a beginner in checking hockey.

I know you aren't in the same situation, but you can look to how novice boys and novice girls would be treated to figure out what your options are. Being trans shouldn't keep you from being able to play - if you otherwise meet the requirements that are placed on everyone else. Some places, you have the "right" to play with boys teams as trans, others regions you don't. But even in places where you do have the right to be treated like a boy, if there are team cuts, you'd still have to earn your place on the team.

Also, being stealth is near impossible in playing hockey and dealing with locker-room situations, esp if you are still in school, and esp if you are pre-surgery/T. 

I think it's great that you're interested in hockey. It's an amazing sport. It's not too early to start building your skills as you figure out the issues of where to play. Skate, skate, skate. Work on stickhandling on your own. If you can, enroll in a clinic for hockey skills and powerskating.

If you really want to be on a boys team, you need to speak to your parents about it, and you need to decide whether you'd try to do so as an out trans guy or as a closeted one presenting/asking as a girl.

Quote from: Sean on May 22, 2011, 09:20:43 PM
Also, being stealth is near impossible in playing hockey and dealing with locker-room situations, esp if you are still in school, and esp if you are pre-surgery/T. 

I think it's great that you're interested in hockey. It's an amazing sport. It's not too early to start building your skills as you figure out the issues of where to play. Skate, skate, skate. Work on stickhandling on your own. If you can, enroll in a clinic for hockey skills and powerskating.

If you really want to be on a boys team, you need to speak to your parents about it, and you need to decide whether you'd try to do so as an out trans guy or as a closeted one presenting/asking as a girl.

I think I definitely need to come out to do this. I don't want to be signed up as female, and if I ask as female I'll just get put on a girl's team.
The locker room situations bring up another thing - can I wear a binder while playing? If I wear it during gym class I get overheated easily, and I don't know how I'd handle playing a sport with it.

Have you guys or do you know any transguys who have played sports after coming out as trans? It seems like there aren't many, if any.

I play soccer, stealth, in a casual adult league. No locker rooms.

I wouldn't wear a full-length binder to play hockey or any other contact sport even if the heat isn't an issue. It reduces your flexibility, which is a safety concern (if you can't bend easily you can find yourself falling more/falling at awkward angles) as well as a performance concern. A short binder, sports binder, or strong sports bra is fine though.

QuoteI don't want to be signed up as female, and if I ask as female I'll just get put on a girl's team.

You can't be put on a girls' team unless you let yourself be put on a girls' team. If you don't want to come out, you can still ask to join a boys' team. Just be very clear: "I want to play hockey, but I want to play on a boys' team." The worst they can say is "no," and then you get your parents to stand up for you, coming out as trans to them if necessary. For me it wasn't necessary, I just told them how I felt about the specific situation, I didn't like playing in girls' leagues because the segregation made me feel like a second-class athlete. If the league still refuses when your parents talk to them, then you can come out to them and see if that works, or you can decide not to play - nobody's going to make you play in the girls' league.

Quote from: piers816 on May 22, 2011, 10:32:19 PM
I think I definitely need to come out to do this. I don't want to be signed up as female, and if I ask as female I'll just get put on a girl's team.
The locker room situations bring up another thing - can I wear a binder while playing? If I wear it during gym class I get overheated easily, and I don't know how I'd handle playing a sport with it.

Have you guys or do you know any transguys who have played sports after coming out as trans? It seems like there aren't many, if any.

It sounds like you don't have much knowledge about the gear worn when you play hockey. Hockey equipment is worn on top of a 'base layer' - t-shirttank/compression shirt and boxers/compression shorts/etc. (it's personal choice what people wear). You *can* wear a short binder without anyone knowing, though, it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially because you can wear a sports bra and people won't gender you on the ice anyway. Hockey gear is more or less gender neutral. Anything that is too tight or restrictive will interfere with your ability to breathe and play effectively.

The issue is really the lockreroom part - and what is more complicated than getting your gear ON is taking your gear OFF. Because the eqiupment is holding your base layer on your body and you are playing a sport, you will be sweaty and gross. How will you change OUT of those garments in a lockerroom with boys and be stealth? If you think you can "get away" with just leaving on the shirt and shorts you played in (and whatever is underneath it) or changing them in a stall, you're wrong. There is pretty much no way to do this without calling attention to yourself or being forced to walk around in sweaty obviously played in clothing while everyone else changes.

Otherwise, you can't be forced to play on a girls team. However, it is NOT true that you have the right to play with boys everywhere. We don't know where you live. There are some places where you legally might, and there are some places where you legally may not. This is true whether you are transitioning or not. It's complicated. You can ask and look into it further. the worst anyone can say is "no."

People DO play sports both before and after transition. Personally, I play hockey all the time, and I love it. I played in men's leagues pre-transition, and I was comfortable in men's lockerrooms for hockey BEFORE transition. I am stealth now when I play where people don't know me from before (I continue to play with guys who knew me beforehand without a problem either - they accept that I transitioned, but they "know").

The difference is that I'm in my 30s. I know other trans athletes, but I am not familiar with many who do it while they are still participating in youth or high school sports. I'm especially not aware of anyone who has successfully gone stealth while in school AND on a hockey team, and I would caution against it for anyone who is still young. It's actually a LOT safer in most places to be out as trans than trying to hope no one ever figures it out in a sport where nudity - esp upper body nudity - is the norm for changing.

Figuring out how to play on a boys hockey team as stealth is many many steps away from where you seem to currently be. I may be misunderstanding your question, but it sounds like:

- you don't know or have the equipment for the sport
- you've never played the sport
- you have not yet come out to your parents
- you aren't "close" to transitioning in real life (as defined by changing your sex within school), stealth or otherwise

if you're ready to come out, by all means, come out to your parents. If you are ready to begin transition with their support and approval, go ahead. I hate telling someone NOT to prioritize hockey, because it's more or less the center of MY world. But...you have a lot of steps to walk through before you get to playing hockey with boys AS a boy. If you really want to play hockey and you're not ready for all that other stuff, you should prob figure out how and where you can play hockey with boys while still presenting as a girl.

Are there co-ed rec leagues where you live? In Minneasota we have them and if you are not 18 I believe you can have a waiver?  Not totally sure since I did not play in that league yet, but will next season.

As for locker rooms... you can easily go stealth.  I always wear the jock shorts under sweats and a under armor shirt under a hoodie when I go to hockey.  I just pull off the hoodie and sweats and put rest of my gear on.  I am not the only person who does this either. After the game, nobody showers or anything.. most of us pull off gear, leave jock shorts and under armor on and put back on sweats and hoodie and leave.  The gear stinks, but not our under armor, so what if I am sweaty under my sweats?

I guess it can also depend on your position to.  I am a goalie so if I wear too much I over heat quick, especially in rinks that don't have good ventilation.  I tend to skate around the net a bit to get some cold air against my face.  Because of all my gear I get in the locker room early and I am mostly changed before everybody else is there.  Also gives me time to mentally get into the game mind set.

Best part I think about hockey is 1) you have tons of gear on so you can hide things., 2) players have so many superstitions (including myself) that you can do whatever you want, especially if nobody knows you! Have you ever read some of the NHL players' superstitions?

I have played with all female and all male teams before. I was a goalie on a National team (male) in the Middle East and even at tournaments nobody cared what gender I was. Nobody even questioned it, or thought twice about it....that was in respect to locker rooms, showers, and toilets. Luckily one of my teammates kept watch at the door so I could shower after the last game and before our flight out of the country.  It was all about the game and the experience.  I don't know about high school, but as adults, hockey players are some of the most awesome folks I have ever met no matter the nationality.