I wish none of you would leave. You are all good for Susan's, who needs you.

It has been me causing the dissent these past few months over so many threads, to prove a point about how different we are and that forced inclusion in an umbrella is wrong.

Since I do not identify as transgender I am the one who needs to leave. I just didnt want to go before letting you all know that many binary heterosexual people do not agree with your political cause and are angry because of it.  Now that it has been made clear, I will leave you in peace.

Valerie,

Nobody has to identify as anything. No one has to identify as transsexual or transgender to be here. This is an inclusive site. There are many binary heterosexual people here. I think there has been some misunderstanding here.

Do that then, Valerie. There are sure plenty of folks here who could use one.

*hug*

Quote from: Valeriedances on June 02, 2011, 02:04:33 PM
I just feel bad about being a cause for people desiring to leave.

I would much rather be a Mom and go around giving everyone hugs. That's what I do best.

You haven't been the cause for anyone to leave. Some people had family issues and other circumstances surrounding their departure.

well, i don't understand how taking the identity of transgender is a political cause. sure, i identify as female, and the transgender label is not important. just by coming to this website, you had to take the identity of transgender at one point or another just because that is the correct term of most people here collectively. it just comes off as you trying to say it's something that doesn't exist. there are some radicals like you, and then there's people who aren't, and choose to stick with the terminology, because they don't see anything wrong with it, case and point.

well you don't have to. if you don't participate in those arguments on who you are, people can't force anything on you. it's similar to how there's people who try and tell me i'm male, but i know i'm female. if i don't involve myself in the argument, they don't get what they want.

No Val, it is not you.  There are some that I could name, but won't.

People need to get their head out of their asses and realize that others have the right to their opinion.  If you want to just argue then leave the thread allow.  You stated your opinion, now DROP it.

I am tired of people trying to change the world to their way of thinking.  The whole TG v. TS is a mute point.  END OF STORY!

We have lost people who may need the support here.  And if we lost those who needs us the most, then we have failed as a support site.

Val, I look up to you.  You are witty and intelligent.  All the ones coming up need you.  And Chloe.  And some of the other post-ops.

Wow, two in one day saying they are leaving, something is seriously wrong here, what, are all the oldtimers just getting up and leaving now! What gives? I hear there some disagreements and whatnot, but are they really that bad? 

Even after I am post-op, and that's a while away yet, I will still identify as TG/TS because nothing on earth will ever change the fact that I was born male and advanced medical care is required to correct that.

Trans, transgender, transsexual are not labels to me, per se. To me, they are pieces of vocabulary, components of language which is the only tool I have to express myself and explain what I am, who I am, what I've been through and what I'll be going through. I don't see this as political, and I'm certainly not trying to make it such. There are people of all sexual orientations who have political agendas, and how I describe myself to myself and others is my business. Others will always make it their business, regardless of my actions, words, or intentions.

Am I "out and proud" to be TG/TS? Not really. Am I ashamed to be TG/TS? Not at all.

That's my $0.02.

Hi Val,

Hi Valerie,

Your posts didn't particularly worry me or offend me, but there is a general attitude that pervades through some threads of none acceptance and the feeling of holier than though. Acceptance is a difficult concept. It means understanding the other persons point of view, and not getting them to understand yours. It  requires the turning off of your emotional  baggage and accepting theirs. It is the unconditional love of another persons point of view. Some things I can never accept, if they go against my humanity. I won't list them but most are obvious.

My biggest problem is understanding people who cannot accept, appreciate or turn the other cheek.

Cindy

All of this leaving/debating stuff is a shock to me but I guess I haven't been browsing those particular boards or threads. Of the posts I've seen of yours Valeriedances I really like and enjoy so again a shock to read about. I understand your POV in that a number of those that decide to transition from one sex to another do so, they don't consider themselves to go from one sex to "transsexual". Some may still choose to identify in some way as TS or TG or as a TS woman or TG woman or vice versa which is fine as long as they accept how you identify! Anyone that doesn't isn't worth your time or typing, and if you decide to stick up for how you view yourself then you're not to blame!
I hope you stay.. you be the awesomes! *hugs*.

Quote from: SpaceyGirl on June 02, 2011, 08:46:23 PM
just by coming to this website, you had to take the identity of transgender at one point or another just because that is the correct term of most people here collectively.

NO! there was not a requirement to have 'taken' that insipid term as a descriptor.  And it is that sort of claim that led to MY originally seeking to leave last month.  I fully understand ValerieDances and the frustration she expresses.  She is NOT alone with the frustration.

If you want to claim 'transgender' as YOUR identity, fine.  But do not dare claim that everyone here must have, by our very nature, have been so identified!

Quoteit just comes off as you trying to say it's something that doesn't exist. there are some radicals like you, and then there's people who aren't, and choose to stick with the terminology, because they don't see anything wrong with it, case and point.

So because some choose NOT to feel their medical condition fell under a particular term we come 'radicals?' 

In many walks of life, we tend to see pendulum swings about every 20 years or so.  I have seen it with components of criminal law since, well, that is what I am involved with by profession.  Fortunately, IMO, we are seeing now with the terminology since it was roughly 20 years ago that I argued that persons of transsexual history had nothing to do with the umbrella language that was proposed in that era.  What I have seen is an uprising that just illustrates I was not alone. 

It is the insistence on people trying to fit the term onto everyone with a transsexual background that gives rise to media issues.  Case in point is the coverage of Nikki's case where you have headlines that insist on labeling her as the 'transgender widow' even after she put out a blog entry and press release SPECIFICALLY asking that the incorrect terminology NOT be applied to stories about her or her case(s).  For as much of a headache as yesterday was for us, at least some of the reporters themselves got the descriptor correct in a few of the written articles...

Quote from: Ann Onymous on June 03, 2011, 06:03:26 AM
NO! there was not a requirement to have 'taken' that insipid term as a descriptor.  And it is that sort of claim that led to MY originally seeking to leave last month.  I fully understand ValerieDances and the frustration she expresses.  She is NOT alone with the frustration.

If you want to claim 'transgender' as YOUR identity, fine.  But do not dare claim that everyone here must have, by our very nature, have been so identified!

So because some choose NOT to feel their medical condition fell under a particular term we come 'radicals?' 

In many walks of life, we tend to see pendulum swings about every 20 years or so.  I have seen it with components of criminal law since, well, that is what I am involved with by profession.  Fortunately, IMO, we are seeing now with the terminology since it was roughly 20 years ago that I argued that persons of transsexual history had nothing to do with the umbrella language that was proposed in that era.  What I have seen is an uprising that just illustrates I was not alone. 

It is the insistence on people trying to fit the term onto everyone with a transsexual background that gives rise to media issues.  Case in point is the coverage of Nikki's case where you have headlines that insist on labeling her as the 'transgender widow' even after she put out a blog entry and press release SPECIFICALLY asking that the incorrect terminology NOT be applied to stories about her or her case(s).  For as much of a headache as yesterday was for us, at least some of the reporters themselves got the descriptor correct in a few of the written articles...

it sounds like you want to rid the term transsexual, so that would make you radical. you can call yourself as you wish, but on this website, that terminology is used inevitably. i obviously can't argue my point with you since you seem so convinced on what you call yourself as. just bringing this up is only going to cause fights and all that. it would be great if in this time period, i could just call myself a female, and that's it. obviously, that time hasn't come yet, which is why if it did, this website wouldn't be needed for the purposes it serves. we could all just be ms lady, mr. man, or whatever in between. i can't see anything wrong with being a transsexual. i often forget i have that tag, and just feel like i've found my oasis as a female.

Quote from: SpaceyGirl on June 03, 2011, 09:37:23 AM
it sounds like you want to rid the term transsexual, so that would make you radical. you can call yourself as you wish, but on this website, that terminology is used inevitably.

The term I want to see go away is 'transgender.'  I have no qualm with the term 'transsexual.'  The latter term applies to the medical condition and birth defect that some us suffer(ed) from and for which we sought medical intervention.  Very few people that know me in person even know my background.  They simply know me as a rather outspoken lesbian.  A very small inner-circle know that I identity as a lesbian with a prior transsexual history. 

Quotei can't see anything wrong with being a transsexual.

I never said there was.  My problem is when people start trying to shove all persons of transsexual history under the 'transgender' umbrella.  And because of the 'transgender' rhetoric, we now have multiple cases where the media has mis-identified persons of transsexual history in the various articles.  GLAAD was taken to task on the story about the editor at People.  Ms. Araguz has seen her request to the media nearly six weeks ago go largely ignored, although at least some of the stories from our court adventures got the terminology correct (only to watch the headline get screwed up by another editor).   

And I still fail to see how not liking the term 'transgender' and wanting it removed from the lexicon makes me or any other post-ops who object to the term to be a 'radical.' Not to mention the continued claim that 'because we came to the site' we must therefore have identified as 'transgendered.'  It just leaves me shaking my head in bewilderment since it all but disregards what some of us feel about OUR OWN histories and birth defect.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on June 02, 2011, 09:23:58 PMVal, I look up to you.  You are witty and intelligent.  All the ones coming up need you.  And Chloe.  And some of the other post-ops.

aww thank you Janet! *hugs* Love to All, Chloe