Since coming out, or being outed, that is since the knowledge you are trans has gone beyond the most trusted people in your life, has it affected your religious beliefs or attitudes?

Pre-out I never gave it much thought.  God, religion, all that kind of stuff, just was.  And to me it was, at the very worst, pretty much harmless (the Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite types aside.)   But, after being outed, I saw God and religion being used as an excuse to discriminate, to judge, to condemn, to reject.  And suddenly my eyes became wide open.  Initially it was shock.  Now it's to keep watch.

So religion went from being anything from good for some and harmless to others to a serious problem.  As I'm trying to regain the rights and privileges I lost after coming out, so-called religious groups are fighting to deny me that.  And from everything I learned growing up, this is completely opposed to God's will.   

Has anyone else had a change in their religious beliefs since coming out?

I was Christian before even realising that I'm trans, and feel that this whole journey is God's doing. I've certainly felt the benefits already, and being told that I look much better and happier just adds to that feeling. Finding a good way to explain that to my small group (my church is huge, so we have a lot of smaller groups meet up during the week) has made it easier for them to accept what I'm going through.

So seeing/hearing other "Christians" using the bible as a weapon against anyone in the LGBT community makes me sick to the stomach. That is *not* God's word they are preaching when they condemn us, it's their own bigotry clinging to parts of the bible written waaaaaay back in the Old Testament - the part where it also says to not eat shrimp or shave

Next time you encounter one of these people, here's a couple of verses to throw back at them:

Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you - Matthew 7:1

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:27-29

And, my favourite bit:

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:26-29

Jesus got p*ed at the Pharisees for getting it wrong, and it's still happening now

I completely agree with Nemo... My beliefs involve that I follow Christ; what the Church has to say is mostly irrelevent to my faith, and I would definitely want a word with the pastor/priest if I knew he was teaching messages of judgment of hate.

... Because that's not what Jesus taught us to say and do. The hateful Christians are hypocrites, like there have always been, and I'm sorry that they have to give Christianity a bad name. But, anyone with an active opposition to something feels the need to say it and why... a hypocritical Christian recognizes that the Bible has some credit, and tries to use that as a weapon. If it weren't the Bible, it would just be something else...

I have to wonder what Jesus would say to those people that use His word as a weapon! 

Yes.
I am Wiccan. Prior to transition I took the standard trans exclusive position of the majority of said practioners. (at least the ones I know are like this) We are given these bodies to procreate in celebration of the creative nature of the Goddess. To transition is to accept serlf impossed sterilization and reject the gift of pro/creation.

After coming to terms with the fact I have always been sterile, I knew I was going to transition. I had to do some reevaluation.. It took me many many many years to be able to come out of denial about this but I did. I never did have the ability to have kids so I was not rejecting anything.
I read some pro trans Wiccan writers. Eventually I came across a group of trans Shaman and it really dawned on me why I was born this way. Those of us who are trans and seek it are natural Shaman. We have an insight into the human condition that most people do not have. We transend the standard reality of the mass and we see things from a diferant angle. Being so disconected to our bodies seems to make it easier to connect with the spirit realm. We are shape shifters. We have many totems that we can seek affinity to with ease due to this shape shifter nature.
Unfortunatly modern society has cast asside their Shaman and have forgoten thier Mother,  Earth.
In many older cultures we were revered and we were Priestess's. Look at how the Phrygians treated us. ...

Perhaps some day mankind will come back full circle and we will once again be the Shaman of the world.
A girl can dream.........

I lost religion at age 13 when my lifelong prayer, to wake up in a girl's body, went unanswered.  It was then that I realized that perhaps faith had nothing to do with religion and I was agnostic for about 10 years until I stumbled upon Paganism and realized how it matched what I already felt in my heart.  Now I consider myself not religious, but deeply spiritual.  And the best way to describe my spiritual beliefs is a mixture of Paganism, Buddhism, and Taoism.

Then again, maybe that's not even an accurate representation.   In any case, I questioned the karmic repercussions of transition before I began, whether transitioning meant I was giving up the opportunity to learn lessons in this lifetime that I had to learn as a boy.  I then came to the conclusion that I (the eternal I) am more than my earthly biology, and perhaps the lesson was something that, up to that point in my life, I had not been able to do: living fully as myself, and so realizing my own potential, be able to give freely to others.  I could never participate fully in life's experience if I went on living a lie.  There was nothing I couldn't learn in a female body that I could have learned in a male body.  That's an oversimplification, but generally how I felt.

Quote from: Jordan R.T. on June 03, 2011, 11:36:26 AM
I have to wonder what Jesus would say to those people that use His word as a weapon! 

Hmm, let's see..

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. - Matthew 23:13

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! - verses 23 and 24 from the same chapter

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. - verses 27 and 28 as above

How I love the Seven Woes, they speak volumes in instances like these

I am not out yet, mostly because I live with my Christian parents.

The people in their church almost all have this oppressive aura of condescending intolerance about them. Thinking back to all the childhood years of forced participation in that group leaves a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. It's left me too afraid to come out, and I will probably simply leave and never tell them who I really am. Needless to say, I was very unimpressed with religion and remain very apathetic toward it.

Quote from: pretty on June 03, 2011, 08:51:32 PM
I will probably simply leave and never tell them who I really am.

This is so sad but not uncommon at all.  When religious beliefs ultimately result in the breaking up of families I wonder why those who are doing the rejecting can't see how wrong this reaction is. 

In the majority of religions, it is completely contrary to their teachings.  Yet rarely does one hear of a religious leader admonishing the parent or family member for throwing their own flesh and blood out of the family for being gay or trans.  Unfortunately, it's the Christian believers who are the worst.

I want to say, "Before you criticize my house, fix your own."  But I know that would only fall on deaf ears because there's this omnipotent element in their beliefs.

Well, I wasn't raised very religious, but for about a year I was taking a lot of psychedelics.  They do change your perception of things, in some ways for better and in some for worse.  It's different for everyone, I guess.

I don't really know what I would call my beliefs.  I never had a strong belief in God, at least not the Abrahamic version.  It just never made sense to me that a loving and omnipotent being would allow so much to go wrong in this world, from famine and natural disasters to trans people feeling like their bodies are wrong.  I've read a little about Taoism, and I like it.  The concept that we all began as one being, then divided into Yin and Yang, and from there divided into everything else... it's not at all unlike a cell splitting into two cells, then four, and so on to create a living thing.  Basically, my belief is that "God" or whatever you want to call it, exists in all of us, is all of us, but isn't a sentient being, just a creative force and ever changing matter that makes up the universe.  I kind of thought this before coming out, but since have come to understand it a little more.  I don't call it God, because that implies some kind of sentience or control over us.  The universe, nature or something, doesn't have intent or rules that we're expected to follow, but we are it and it is us.  I hope that makes sense.

my views did change but I can't say that transition or HRT effects had something to do with it directly for sure. I had spent a great deal of time and thought on the subject and possibly would of progressed to where I am now regardless.
You could say my views were more or less of an atheist and I would question certain theists endlessly. All the killing and manipulation that goes on under the name of certain gods. But one day I decided I no longer wanted to feel I had the answer to a question that at this point in time is ultimately unknown so stepped back and realised that for me it would be better to be closer to agnostic.
I no longer had anything against all theists as I figured some just feel that for a better life for them they "believe", and have faith and hope in an unknown.. it gets them through the day and makes them happy so good on them! I then figured that atheists were more antagonistic than theists as all they seem to do is try and mock or criticise theists views, without any noticeable positivity. At least of what I have seen.
But like a lot of topics that I put a lot of time and thought into these days I simply no longer care or want to even know. I'd rather focus on things that are worth my time.

I was raised pagan and for me it actually took converting to atheism before I could come out and realize that my feelings of femininity were something biological and that I had to stop hiding behind the excuse that I had been a GG in a past life. I still wonder if past lives could be real and maybe that's the cause of my being trans but that wasn't relevant to the need to transition.

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 04, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
This is so sad but not uncommon at all.  When religious beliefs ultimately result in the breaking up of families I wonder why those who are doing the rejecting can't see how wrong this reaction is. 

In the majority of religions, it is completely contrary to their teachings.  Yet rarely does one hear of a religious leader admonishing the parent or family member for throwing their own flesh and blood out of the family for being gay or trans.  Unfortunately, it's the Christian believers who are the worst.

I want to say, "Before you criticize my house, fix your own."  But I know that would only fall on deaf ears because there's this omnipotent element in their beliefs.

I agree. I think I share the view of Christians when they argue that the problem is not in the teachings of the religion, but for different reasons.

I think the real problem is the sense of certainty it gives people, so they do not have to feel any personal responsiblity for their decisions. It allows and encourages people to make judgments with zero hesitation, based only on their poorly examined feelings and just say that it is the "will of God." And if it's not written in the bible, they simply find something mostly unrelated and interpret it in a convenient way.

[placeholder for future comment when I have more time]

well, for me, i actually understand spirituality now when for my whole life i either didn't care, payed no attention or it made me completely uncomfortable in every way. this one time i saw this wooden box on my mom's dresser when i was barely tall enough to see the things up there and grabbed it, there was nothing written or drawn on it so i opened it and inside the top of the box was a very detailed portrait of Jesus Christ, this giant cross, clouds and rays of light around an behind him. and for some reason it instantly scared me and i right away shut it, put it back, left the room and went up the stairs as if i had seen some kind of monster. well, images of him or people talking about him, God or religion always did that to me as a kid through to middle school and part of high school and even when i was in a youth group i was just going through the motions and trying to be "good." it made me slightly less depressed but i felt absolutely no closeness to God whatsoever.

luckily i wasn't raised in a religious family so there was no criticism for coming out as trans for that. but ever since i started re-reading a certain book i first read in 08. (i didn't even get that the first time) about spirituality that simplifies the meanings to scriptures throws in a few Jesus quotes (it's mostly about being in the now and present that you are not your thoughts you are the ever vibrant energy that is in all plant, animal and human life more than any religion...but i don't want to gush) and the last few days I've sort of astonished myself. i think about this Jesus fellow lot now, i actually want to learn more about him now that i finally get it. this feeling like i really should for some reason. like he'd be this cool person to hang out/talk with and he'd get me if i could actually do that. that i could actually sit and read a bible and i could keep my attention span and not fall asleep but instead find way more inspiration because i know no kind of God would make someone (LGBTQA) and then hate or refuse them. makes no sense. we're made to be exactly the way we are for a reason.

i love the idea from nemo that Jesus would yell at all the bigots of today with those words from Matthew, I'd LOVE to see that!

Kia Ora Julie,

My "spiritual" beliefs have evolved in the "right" direction in a very beneficial way[the middle way] and will continue to do so...

For a while I looked into Rastafarianism, well for quite a few years...

"Most people think,
Great god will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth:
And now you see the light,
You stand up for your rights. Jah!"


There was still something missing....But it was good while it lasted though [if you know what I mean]     

Metta Zenda

I've been walking the Pagan pathways since my mid teens with a strong grounding in the Thelemic Ceremonial Magick traditions.  Like Zoë above, I debated the karmic implications of transitioning for a long time.  I've known since my earliest childhood memories that I was different on the inside than what the body presented on the outside.  I'd tried to be as comfortable in my own skin, the body I was born with, and to live this life as given to me as best I could to learn whatever lesson I was here to learn.  I'd wondered and debated if I chose to outwardly express that which was internal would I be throwing a monkey wrench in to the lesson plan as it were.

It was a few years ago that I had the epiphany that that does not matter.  Lessons will be learned regardless because ultimately we cannot know what we are here to learn until we pass between cycles and maybe not even then.  Maybe I was here to learn to accept myself, to learn to be properly true to myself and transition might be the actual lesson.  Maybe not, but then I could play the second guessing game until I drove myself completely nuts.  In the end I realized, I just need to be true to who I am and follow that path to wherever it might lead.  It did take me a couple of extra years to fully put that in practice though. Understanding does not always trump fear.  /lop sided smile

So, no I can't say my beliefs have changed, but maybe my understanding of my beliefs has. 

As a secondary thought.  One of the tenets of tenets of ceremonial magick is that magick is nothing more than causing change in conformance to your will.  Magick is not flashy, and in many cases it is rather mundane.  So for me, the process of transition is a very magickal / spiritual act. 

I was raised in a Southern Independent Fundamental Baptist family and religion was shoved down my throat. My mom went back and forth from straight and lesbian. Now she kisses her religion and family's arse/ I used to have faith in God until I was raped, then for two years my step brother molested me. Now in life, I honestly don't know what to think about God and religion. I believe there is a God, that He died on a cross, etc. But I am also wondering if I cna be cured and such. This whole TG thing is hard due to coming out, being judged, religion... the church I went to my entire life escorted me and my ex gf out and said not ot bother coming back because we were a disgrace and that "our kind" weren't welcome. This was on the assumption that I was a lesbian.

I am a philosopher and as such any beliefs I may or may not hold with regards to religion are essentially independent of my state of being. Whether I am out or closeted has nothing at all to do with the state of the world, the existence or non-existence of God/ess/god/esses. So as a result also has nothing to do with my beliefs on these matters. I am a sceptical agnostic. You can feel free to look that up but essentially it means that I accept the cold truth that no one, can ever experience God/ess/god/esses and so how can we ever make any meaningful statement with regards to them?

Anyway...


A lot of people here seem to be speaking ill of religion, not because of the religion itself but because of the fools and hypocrites abusing and using the message of its teachings to serve their own questionable ends.

Christianity seems to be taking the brunt of this anti-religious sentiment. Or suffering quite patently false comments such as "Yet rarely does one hear of a religious leader admonishing the parent or family member for throwing their own flesh and blood out of the family for being gay or trans.  Unfortunately, it's the Christian believers who are the worst."

Are you not aware of the teachings of fundamentalist Islam?

---

You ought not make judgments upon a religion, simply because of the ignorance of its supposed believers. Nor should you judge religious people because of the religion they hold. I am sure there are many Christians and people of other religions here. I suspect very view of them will be the prejudiced bigots that people fear.

---

People say that you can be blinded by religion.

My point?

Do not be blinded by the religion of others.

My beliefs have changed, but so have I. I'm not even sure if my changing beliefs are attributed just to the time that has passed or if it was a result of my trying to cement my identity.
I use to be agnostic, yet oddly God-fearing. I was very unsure of the existence of a higher power but feared that if there was one, I was doing something to anger Him/Her/It. I was also very spiritually aware of myself, my energy, and my Karma. I went out of my way to do good so my Karma would improve and I was more heavily involved with New Age practices.
I currently take a more Secular Humanist approach to things. I understand humans as animals in a unique position of free will and consciousness. Having faith is not required to be a good, compassionate person nor is any person inherently good or evil.

I personally don't believe in any religion- I see them as brainwashing. It seems that many times religion is used as a reason for people's and governments' horrible actions (war, killing, oppression, persecution, etc.).

However, I did believe in a Higher Power/God who helped us spiritually. I never saw him as a creator of worlds. I believed his main role & goal was to help us spiritually get through life and it's lessons.

Now, I have no faith in God. I need to stop using him as a crutch. Instead, I must rely on myself and the help of others when needed. When something is accomplished or good happens people say God did it. No, he didn't. You did it by planning, will power and taking action. For me, becoming stronger inside meant I had to take the reigns and create my own destiny and future and not rely on someone/something that may or may not exist.

I do believe in an afterlife and reincarnation, but I'm starting to believe there is no one source of power (God). I find the idea one person said about "God" is actually inside all living things and is no one being interresting.