Quote from: SnailPace on June 30, 2011, 03:14:24 PM
Hey, so I'm not trying to single you out particularly, but this comment basically embodies what I am trying to ask so I figure I'll start here.  And my question is: Could you explain this to me a bit more? (This question also goes out to anyone who feels similarly)

So, I'll start with the phrase "I am into cis females".  Now I can understand someone being put off by a penis, in that they would not want to have a sexual encounter with one present, but why does that mean you would specify cis females?  Because a lot of trans women don't have penises either and are basically indistinguishable from a cis person in every way. And also, say you meet a good looking girl and you are attracted to her, maybe you get lost in the moment and make out or something, but then you find out that she is trans and has her original equipment down there.  Now, obviously you don't have to have sex with her but could you say that you "weren't into her"?

And also, I'll put you in a similar situation with a guy.  Say you are approached by a guy and you say to him "Sorry, I'm not into cis guys" but then he says "Oh, but I'm trans!" Does this spark some sort of potential attraction that you couldn't have felt before?  Are you like, "Oh, maybe I'll reconsider then"?  Because I don't really understand how that could work.  Unless you are only attracted to trans guys who don't pass for cis?

I'm not trying to attack you, I do really want to understand these attractions you profess.  But I would be lying if I said I don't feel like your words are a little othering and transmisogynistic.

Thanks

meaning i do not like penis at all, so i will date a FtM because a lot of FtM's that i know in real life or my brother knows, which he is also a trans man, they do not have penis' they have vaginas still. i do not think having a vagina makes someone less of a man, i just will never date or be sexually involed with anyone with a panis no matter what they identify as, if a MtF is pre op i will not be involved with her.

I identify as queer. I'm comfortable dating people of any gender identity, but I'm not comfortable dating people of certain sexual orientations I guess. I will not date anyone who identifies as lesbian, anyone who is exclusively attracted to cis women and trans men, anyone who is exclusively attracted to women (both cis and trans) and trans men, or anyone who identifies as a straight guy. Pretty much, if you wouldn't date a cis guy, I wouldn't date you. I understand only being attracted to certain genitals, but the thought of suddenly becoming potentially attractive to someone just because they've learned I'm not cis, honestly makes me uncomfortable. Nothing about me changed; the only thing that changed is their assumptions about my body. 

Quote from: MaxAloysius on June 29, 2011, 05:51:14 AM
GAY! Flamin'ly so.  People have been known to walk into my room and spontaniously combust. 

Seriously though, I love me some man.

Quote from: SnailPace on June 30, 2011, 03:14:24 PM
I'm not trying to attack you, I do really want to understand these attractions you profess.  But I would be lying if I said I don't feel like your words are a little othering and transmisogynistic.

I'm quoting that specific part because I admit I am about to say something that will piss a lot of people off. Fact is there are other questions like can trans people (mtf or ftm) actually fit into the "regular" dating box of their cis counterparts? I have dated cismen, ciswomen, ftms and am currently married to a pre-op mtf. The transmen I have dated do not hold the same romantic qualities and interactions cismen had. Same goes for ciswomen and mtfs.

There are some things that just don't seem to pass over for everyone. For example, one transman I dated could not get himself out of the more stereotypical female ideas of sex when it came to his roll in it. There was more cuddling, touchy feely romance than with the cismen I had dated. Opposite with my experience with mtf women and ciswomen. The majority if mtf women I dated still had issues with taking on a more male role in bed. I know this is not true of even necessarily a majority of trans people but it's still a question that comes into play.

Now here is where we hit another question though. Is it honestly that they act more male or female in bed or is it really just a stupid thing society has taught us? Is there ACTUALLY a way to be male or female in bed or is it just how that person in particular is? Without having an actual answer for that there isn't really a way to unravel it. There are things society tells us, men are in control, men are dom in bed... but that isn't true of every man, and not every woman is the opposite.

Sooooo.... is it the lover or is it my learned expectations of what the lover should do based upon their gender?

There are still days I have to remind my wife that certain things don't have to be applied to her any longer, like she does not have to protect me and take care of me. She was raised in the way where a man took care of his family, and she was taught that is what she would have to do someday. Sometimes we argue because it is hard for her to let me take care of her, or let me carry the weight when it comes to bills/working/etc, and it makes her feel bad if I am the person who is the "bread winner". She feels like this is her job, and even though it was taught to her that she should do this because she was a man, now that she lives as a woman she cannot let go of that idea. I was raised in a household that taught me it's 50/50, both partners do their fair share, etc.

I think the real question is rather or not there is actually a way to be "male" or "female" in bed regardless of your body or if it is all just something that will be different for each of us based on what we were taught?

__________________________________
To answer the original question I identify as bisexual. Although typically around other men I would call myself straight, more out of personal comfort with my friends. The girls I am friends with know that I will go either way, but I am truly picky about what cismen and transmen I will be with. I prefer females for the romantic/emotional attachment, but when it comes to sex I'm completely open lol.

Well... I'm told it doesn't matter what your orientation is once you're "taken"... my fiancee is a cisgendered chick, and she's the only one I anticipate being with ever again.

That said, I still consider myself to be bisexual. Before anyone attacks me for not being "pansexual", I feel like that word denotes that ftms and mtfs are not men or women. Then there's androgynes, with whom I have no problem, but for god's sakes, do we really need a term for everything?

So I'm bi. Whatever. I've been with cis-chicks, mtfs, bioguys, an androgyne, and an ftm. I've never really cared about what's in someone's pants or by what pronouns they're referred, just whether or not we're compatible and there's that "spark". Before T, I thought I was straight... i.e., for many years I identified as a lesbian before knowing what it was to be trans, and was disgusted at the thought of being with a guy, though I dated quite a few in my teen years. After T, I found a new appreciation for men/maleness, and now find that I prefer guys. However, you can't choose who you fall in love with. I admit, my genital dysphoria is far greater, being with a chick, but oh well.

Sorry, kind of blanked out at the end there. The point of my last post is that without an answer to the questions about rather or not it's our own expectations or if there is ACTUALLY a way each gender should act in bed it's hard to really know, is someone being cruel or misguided when they say they only would date cisfemales and not mtf women? If there is an actual difference, something scientific or whatever that makes us act differently in bed based on our genders then is it fair to say that not all trans people will cross that bridge and this will make a difference to their partners as time passes?

So many questions I can't even wrap my little mind around them lol. It's late, maybe I just need sleep. I will be interested in seeing what some other people add by tomorrow afternoon though

Quote from: Axelle on June 30, 2011, 09:51:56 AM
Cis-male-gay is attracted to cis-male straight or cis-male-gays as a rule, but do NOT like girl-bit and that includes breasts, even sub-A cups on a pre- or non-op, like self.
Apparently the same goes for gay cis-females. I understand that MtF are generally also not welcome play-mates as many/most have the same aversion for boy-bits, and even if those where just present way back in one's past. Of course narrower hips, less waist and broader shoulders may also play a roll.
Any of your own findings to confirm mine?

My experience is it seems to be more about the hormones than any particular body part. It seems that most people react instinctively by smell/taste more than anything - that includes men, despite all the stuff about us being more visual. Yes, visual turnons work to make us generally aroused, but when it comes to "chemistry," it's mostly...well, chemical.

Quote from: kyril on July 01, 2011, 02:12:50 AM
My experience is it seems to be more about the hormones than any particular body part. It seems that most people react instinctively by smell/taste more than anything - that includes men, despite all the stuff about us being more visual. Yes, visual turnons work to make us generally aroused, but when it comes to "chemistry," it's mostly...well, chemical.

Very true. My wife and I had been on hormones for nearly 3 years and always had a ton of sparks between us. Since we've been off them for about 8 months now we have definitely fizzled down a lot. (For anyone curious we went off them with the intentions of getting pregnant but simply cannot stand life without them and are going back on lol)

I've found myself really missing the ways girls smell, the way their skin feels, etc, recently. And in turn I've met a girl I am very attracted to who is NOT my wife. It has been really hard on us but we are aware of what the actual issues are. Thankfully the other woman is a good friend and completely understands that it's not really a thing I have going on with "her" it's a thing I have going on with my wife. She has remained my friend and handled the whole thing very well. As we like to joke about, I don't really have a crush on her, I have a crush on the idea of "female" that she happens to represent to me right this minute. I'm not getting that need fulfilled at home and I got a case of wandering eyes. Our marriage is certainly not in trouble, we just had to come to the point where we realized that some things have changed with our physical chemistry. After talking about it we decided the best course was to go back on our hormones and hopefully will find our way back to each other through doing so.

After talking with my friend about it for a few months now I do know that I really miss these things about women, but more in particular I miss them in my wife. I miss HER smell and the way SHE feels.

So yeah... maybe I just needed to ramble about that a bit too lol. But it did give me the perfect opportunity to ramble and also prove your point lol

I am gay. Very very gay. I like men, a lot, gay men, that is. Though I have had crushes on two straight men, but I swear my gaydar went off the first time I met them! I do worry however, that another gay male will never date me bc I'm missing very important male parts.

Quote from: Sebastien on July 01, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
Before anyone attacks me for not being "pansexual", I feel like that word denotes that ftms and mtfs are not men or women. Then there's androgynes, with whom I have no problem, but for god's sakes, do we really need a term for everything?

My thoughts on this. People who define their pansexuality as liking 'men, women, and trans people' absolutely kill me. Through personal experience, everyone I've met in real life that has said this has been someone who was just co-opting the identity to be trendy. In my experience, it's also generally the 'trendy' ones who are shaming people for being bi and not pan. The point of pansexuality is that it also includes non-binary genders (e.g. agender people, bigender people, genderqueer people, etc.) So, I do think we need a term to differentiate this from bisexuality because there is a difference. I do not think you should put up with anyone saying that ftms and mtfs are not men and women or shaming you for your sexual orientation. Bisexuality and pansexuality are equally valid orientations. (So, there's my rant for the day I guess. I used to identify as pan until I kept meeting the 'trendy' ones and didn't feel comfortable associating myself with them. Not all pan people are like that though; I have some good friends who are pansexual and they don't 'other' trans people or shame bi people.)

Quote from: Brendon on July 01, 2011, 09:54:25 AM
My thoughts on this. People who define their pansexuality as liking 'men, women, and trans people' absolutely kill me. Through personal experience, everyone I've met in real life that has said this has been someone who was just co-opting the identity to be trendy. In my experience, it's also generally the 'trendy' ones who are shaming people for being bi and not pan. The point of pansexuality is that it also includes non-binary genders (e.g. agender people, bigender people, genderqueer people, etc.) So, I do think we need a term to differentiate this from bisexuality because there is a difference. I do not think you should put up with anyone saying that ftms and mtfs are not men and women or shaming you for your sexual orientation. Bisexuality and pansexuality are equally valid orientations. (So, there's my rant for the day I guess. I used to identify as pan until I kept meeting the 'trendy' ones and didn't feel comfortable associating myself with them. Not all pan people are like that though; I have some good friends who are pansexual and they don't 'other' trans people or shame bi people.)

personally i just like the term pansexual instead of bisexual, i do think they are basically the same thing though.

Im intersex or indeterminate.

Quote from: Natalie3174 on July 01, 2011, 12:27:10 PM
Im intersex or indeterminate.

but that's not a sexual orientation is it? isn't it just who/what you are? what sexes/genders do you like or prefer as intersex?

Quote from: ajborelli on July 01, 2011, 12:13:24 PM
personally i just like the term pansexual instead of bisexual, i do think they are basically the same thing though.

do you mean you're pansexual or bisexual then?
i personally used to think i was bisexual since i like both men and women. had to redefine myself after reading the definition of pansexual, as my interests aren't actually restricted to men and women. i could potentially fall in love with any and all gender variations, and there are no variants of genitalia that i wouldn't be interested in. i'm not sure all bisexuals could be attracted to any combination of both spectrums like i could

Im just a collector sorry I can not answer.

Technically I am pansexual but I find the general population is not familiar with that term so I simplify and call myself bi.

Quote from: SnailPace on June 30, 2011, 03:14:24 PM
Hey, so I'm not trying to single you out particularly, but this comment basically embodies what I am trying to ask so I figure I'll start here.  And my question is: Could you explain this to me a bit more? (This question also goes out to anyone who feels similarly)
___________________________________

I'm not trying to attack you, I do really want to understand these attractions you profess.  But I would be lying if I said I don't feel like your words are a little othering and transmisogynistic.

So I just have to say it. I tried not to... but obviously I am back, so I could not keep from doing this. This is not to attack you but for real, if that was your question the whole time why didn't you JUST ask? lol

I see this all the time on here, these roundabout vague questions and after like 2 or 3 pages go by suddenly someone says the exact thing the OP was fishing for. And it's almost always to discuss something that the OP does not personally agree with. Then we do this whole "not to attack you" thing with it and try to have a convo. Which is all cool, but sometimes it sucks being the person who gets caught on the hook guys.

Can we all agree to try a bit harder to just be upfront instead of playing games with our posts to reel in a victim? lol

I'm seriously not trying to be mean, and I am not addressing just this one OP or post by any means. But at the same time it is true that I'm totally calling you out on it

I define as bi, mostly because it would be dishonest to my past to use any other term. (I have had both male and female lovers and each relationship was important.)

Before transition I was bi with a preference for women. Since transition I have been almost exclusively attracted to men, which kind of sucks because A)I have women interested in me all the time but no men and B)for some strange reason I always seem to come up on everyone's radar as a lesbian. It's kind of frustrating me right now. 

I'm more attracted to women, but I don't see anything wrong with a man.
Though I would like to meet an mtf :////)

Quote from: Robert Scott on June 29, 2011, 08:04:36 AM
I don't want to be seen as a hetro male -- I have spent too many years in the lesbian cultural and it's where I feel comfortable so I don't want to be called straight.

True, I am finding it totally weird when my friends are introducing me as a straight dude now (regardless of the fact that yes, I am that, technically), and no idea why I had to be even introduced as a straight dude to a gay guy who was looking to get some translation done... Are we, the LGBTQ community, really sexual orientation/gender identity Nazis?! The funny thing was I had not heard about the translation job after that - so I guess I didn't pass the "gay" test.

Quote from: coyote on June 29, 2011, 01:12:40 PM
Asexual. This seems to be somewhat rare among FTMs.

But is asexuality a sexual orientation? By the very definition sexual orientation is about being attracted sexually, physically, emotionally to some or the other or both. If so, I am not sure that asexuality is a sexual orientation. PS: Have had this discussion with many asexuals (admittedly non-FTM), and someone is yet to convince me that asexuality is a sexual orientation.