WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND? seriously, ALL the time i get questions like "when you're a boy are you going to ____" or "will you still do that after you become a boy?" when i explain that "i'm not BECOMING a boy. i have always been male, but i was born with a body that causes others to perceive me as female." to which i almost always get the response of "well, you're not a boy yet. when are you getting your penis/surgery?"

obviously 99% of the time penis = male and vagina = female, but i find it really disturbing that the binary thinking goes so far that my own peers refuse to acknowledge me for who i am because of what they think or know is between my legs, despite my legal name being ryan, and my drivers license, passport, social security, etc all testifying that i am male.

why does the simple fact that we are trans make our genitalia a completely appropriate subject of conversation? if they were to speak as bluntly/offensively with a cis person as most people do with us about completely private bodily matters, they would either get beat up or filed for harrassment. depending on the person, sometimes i immediately turn the statement around with them as the butt of the joke: "do YOU pee sitting down?" "what does your vagina look like?" "well, i'm not going to call you by your name or refer to you as a man until you show me your penis."

I know a pre-op woman who has taken to telling cisgenders she has had surgery to deflect these stupid questions.

We are a circus side show too many people. Jerry Springer and Ricky Lake taught them that they can ask us any sort of degrading question and we should be ok with it.

I see no fix for these questions other than to simply not answer them and let people know how ofensive such qestions are.

quote from the jerry springer show

"So, your sister is dating your roommate? Your sister believes that your roommate is a man? But it's not really a man, it's a woman? Why wouldn't you tell your sister that?"
"I mean she actually lives the life of a man. She stands up when she pisses. She pissed all over my toilet."

Quote from: RyGuy on July 04, 2011, 11:27:58 PM
quote from the jerry springer show

"So, your sister is dating your roommate? Your sister believes that your roommate is a man? But it's not really a man, it's a woman? Why wouldn't you tell your sister that?"
"I mean she actually lives the life of a man. She stands up when she pisses. She pissed all over my toilet."

other episode (transwoman talks about not originally telling her boyfriend that she was assigned male at birth):
"Why didn't you tell him?"
"Well, I wanted him to get to know me first, as a female."
"But that's not true! He has a right to choose whether he wants to go out with a man, a woman, or a transgender."

I tend to answer the genital questions. I figure if I answer questions about surgical options for trans men then it's one less other person to be triggered, or pissed off by that question.

Quote from: Nygeel on July 04, 2011, 11:34:22 PM
I tend to answer the genital questions. I figure if I answer questions about surgical options for trans men then it's one less other person to be triggered, or pissed off by that question.

I used to answer and try to educate, but after getting more than one response "if you don't have a penis you aren't a boy" I stopped trying to be nice.

Quote from: RyGuy on July 04, 2011, 11:40:28 PM
I used to answer and try to educate, but after getting more than one response "if you don't have a penis you aren't a boy" I stopped trying to be nice.

I guess I've been fortunate enough not to get those sort of responses.

That statement is really what finished my one and only relationship with a guy.  He couldn't get it into his head that I wasn't going to "become" a woman, but was one already where it counted. Inside my head. 

It's really a refusal to take you seriously if someone won't accept that it is ultimately a life or death matter.  For me it would not have been physical suicide, but a near total withdrawal from society and a life permanently trapped in Depression.

Ugh, I hate that so much!

I knew a guy once who's first question to me after getting back into contact after a few months apart was 'So do you have a penis yet?'

What makes everyone think that's okay? Do I have 'I'm trans, please ask me about my genitals' written across my face or something?!

When asked questions like this I normally give the person a horrible look and say 'Do you really think that's any of your business?' or 'I'm sorry, I don't remember asking you about your genitals, what makes you think it's okay to ask about mine?'

I always "love" when I'm asked, "You realize once you start HRT that you'll have to stay on it the rest of your life, right?" Well, duh, ya think??? I always feel like saying, "Unless they've figured out how to give me a prostate, etc, I guess so!"

And another one, this was when my now ex-best friend  (I have 2 other BFFs, they would never say/do this to me) invited me to her grad party, and to her mother's funeral, she asked: "Hey, when you come, can you dress not so masculine, and not talk about you TRANS stuff or becoming a guy or whatever?" Seriously, she really went there. She's so lucky this was over the phone, bc I was so offended. What got me was, 1) I've never once talked about being trans or anything else out in public, and its not something I would do, I mean this is me, it's who I am, what do I need to talk about it for? 2) she told her whole family I was trans w/o asking me first and her fam is VERY conservative, so imagine going to a family get together and getting asked all day about it, and 3) at her mom's funeral, her sister LOUDLY started asking me questions and talking about it, I was humiliated, and yet she had the nerve to ask ME not to talk about it, yet that's all they wanted to talk about. I'd be in the middle of some random convo and bam, out of nowhere, "So, you still doing that guy thing?" Worst experience of my life, the only reason I didn't leave was bc I didn't have my car, and when her sister's BFF started asking me what was going on, my exBFF came over and said, "well, let's just say that "she's" now my little BROTHER" God, and she had the nerve to... urgh! All this happened just last month, so it's still fresh in my mind.

There are others, but this stands out the most. 

There are times, even now, that my husband says things like this to me when he's in one of his (thankfully rare) bouts of 'I'm not gay!'.  Normally he's very supportive.

Some 'great' ones:

'You know we'll never have sex again if you get GRS, right?'

'But I like your boobs!'

'No, we're not getting you a pack 'n play, because my ass is still exit only.'

Quote from: RyGuy on July 04, 2011, 11:40:28 PM
I used to answer and try to educate, but after getting more than one response "if you don't have a penis you aren't a boy" I stopped trying to be nice.

"how you gonna get with a woman as a man if you don't have a dick?"

smh

I told people that when you started T you grew a penis.  LOL  It is true, just not what they envision.  So then they think you don't need surgery; or if they ask about *that* surgery I just said that surgery was necessary if I wanted to pee through it (technically true too).

But then, I don't feel the need to answer extremely personal questions.

I still have not told coworkers I have had THE SURGERY.  Though I make a point of leaving the toilet seat up.  LOL  (non-gendered bathrooms at work).


Jay

Quote from: Knarx on July 05, 2011, 08:13:13 AM
I always "love" when I'm asked, "You realize once you start HRT that you'll have to stay on it the rest of your life, right?" Well, duh, ya think??? I always feel like saying, "Unless they've figured out how to give me a prostate, etc, I guess so!"

And another one, this was when my now ex-best friend  (I have 2 other BFFs, they would never say/do this to me) invited me to her grad party, and to her mother's funeral, she asked: "Hey, when you come, can you dress not so masculine, and not talk about you TRANS stuff or becoming a guy or whatever?" Seriously, she really went there. She's so lucky this was over the phone, bc I was so offended. What got me was, 1) I've never once talked about being trans or anything else out in public, and its not something I would do, I mean this is me, it's who I am, what do I need to talk about it for? 2) she told her whole family I was trans w/o asking me first and her fam is VERY conservative, so imagine going to a family get together and getting asked all day about it, and 3) at her mom's funeral, her sister LOUDLY started asking me questions and talking about it, I was humiliated, and yet she had the nerve to ask ME not to talk about it, yet that's all they wanted to talk about. I'd be in the middle of some random convo and bam, out of nowhere, "So, you still doing that guy thing?" Worst experience of my life, the only reason I didn't leave was bc I didn't have my car, and when her sister's BFF started asking me what was going on, my exBFF came over and said, "well, let's just say that "she's" now my little BROTHER" God, and she had the nerve to... urgh! All this happened just last month, so it's still fresh in my mind.

There are others, but this stands out the most.

I recently went to a funeral in a suit and tie (on T 3 yrs, fully transitioned) and met people I had met before as F (they were friends of the deceased).  I just introduced myself as Jay and left it at that, never mentioning we had met before, as it had been >10 yrs ago.


Jay

sneakersJay I wish it was like that for me. I haven't started therapy yet so my features are still very feminine, but I can't help that this "friend" told her whole family about me and then decided to openly ask me about it. I diverted the conversation as much as possible. And I'm still miffed that she went and did that w/o asking if it was okay, which it wasn't. I look forward to the day I can wear my first suit and introduce myself as Adrian.

Quote from: sneakersjay on July 07, 2011, 07:48:26 AMI told people that when you started T you grew a penis. LOL It is true, just not what they envision.

It's amazing how many people just assume this. Many assume I have grown a full-sized functioning penis. I just leave it as that. Anything that can help people mentally realize I'm "now" a man works for me. And, like the OP said, people equate man=penis.

I've been lucky in that I haven't been asked IMO any vulgar questions about my genitalia. Most people know surgeries are done or are available so they've asked about them. I'll talk about them because usually they're just curious and want to learn more.

Cis-people don't know our world very well or what it's like so they don't know or understand things like we do. If I can tell someone wants to know because they want to learn and not because they're purposely being rude I see no harm in educating them. It helps them realize we are real people and not some freak show. Oddly, people seem to be more interested in my body hair growth than anything else.

If I've been outed and someone asks me about it I plan on telling them I was born a female but am now a male. I will of course say I'm male first until they have hard evidence that I'm trans. I've learned that cis-people just can not understand that we've always been male and can't get past the body thing. We just aren't male until we've had surgeries for alot of people. I've noticed a huge shift in thinking since my top surgery with people who know I'm trans. My IDs and now being legally male help too.

I personally love the comments of "when you were a girl". Even though it's incorrect it also shows that people are seeing me as truly male and "no longer a woman". Cis-people are never going to fully get it so the best we can do is educate them.

However, if you perceive any comment or question to be vulgar, insensitive or dangerous tell them so. Don't put up with it. A cis-person wouldn't so neither should you.

Don't accept people outing you or discussing you being trans around those who don't know. I fight that never-ending battle at work and do not tolerate it. My workplace has known long enough and should be on the same, correct page- especially around employees who don't know my past.

My entire 9th grade class had a field day with these. "Have you had 'the surgery'?!" "Do you have a [insert exceedingly silly word for penis here]?!" ... XD I usually either explain the actual surgeries (and usually throw in something about MTF bottom surgery as well) or just inform them that only my doctor and boyfriend had a right to know.  A lot of them are weirdly-ish accepting.

Some girl asks me about my genitals and sexuality nearly every day at school. 'Tis a pain. When I did tell her I was pansexual, and she asked what that was, this girl I liked explained it to her correctly. 

My dad asked if I was gay or straight since I had a boyfriend, and whether my boyfriend was gay or straight. He continued to be amused with it even after I explained I was pansexual, and I don't really care what my boyfriend's sexuality is. I think bi, but I really don't give a ->-bleeped-<-. XD

It can be exceedingly irritating at times.

Cis-people are never going to fully get it so the best we can do is educate them.

It's highly doubtful that you'll do anything of the sort.  The best anyone can do is to teach people who have the desire to learn.  But they have to have that desire first or you're just wasting time.  I know that 'education' tone of voice very well and I can tune it out before they finish the first syllable.  It's not possible to know everything, and given that, there is nothing wrong with being, and wanting to continue being pleasantly ignorant about the entire deal.  If it has no impact on their lives, they are not under any obligation to understand it.  And it is very big, very complex, with an almost Byzantine system that one has to work their way though, less than zero understanding in the scientific and medical communities that explain ANY of it, and ... and that (as we find out around here daily anymore) such things only affect TS persons, so this new 'education' doesn't even help me understand the entire group.  So I'm thinking that not a lot of people are motivated to bother in the first place.

Quote from: RyGuy on July 04, 2011, 11:40:28 PM
"if you don't have a penis you aren't a boy"

"wait a sec, i think i had a knife somewhere.." *starts rummaging through pockets* "why don't you let me cut off yours and see if you become a girl?"

Quote from: tekla on July 10, 2011, 05:52:24 AM
It's highly doubtful that you'll do anything of the sort.  The best anyone can do is to teach people who have the desire to learn.  But they have to have that desire first or you're just wasting time...and that (as we find out around here daily anymore) such things only affect TS persons, so this new 'education' doesn't even help me understand the entire group.  So I'm thinking that not a lot of people are motivated to bother in the first place.

So, so true.  Early on in my transition, I wanted to tell everyone and educate everyone on everything trans.  Nothing good ever came of that; most people just don't care unless it directly affects them.  Now I just want to live my life, occasionally needing to explain important details to pertinent persons.  I've practically lost all motivation to be a trans advocate or educator.  My biggest thing right now is connecting trans people in my area to needed resources.  And that's pretty much it.