OK, the Gospel of John is the weird one of the bunch, but it has one story in it that I have been thinking about for a while here.  Specifically, since I went to the special World AIDS Day Eucharist Service for my diocese (Episcopalian) last October. The text is John 9, 1:41 in full, but the part I have thought about is the first three verses--

1 As Jesus walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him. .....

Its pretty obvious to me that the concept "Trans" could fit in place of the type of blindness this person had. He was born that way!!  WHY, "so that God's Works could be revealed in him".  Was it for punishment?  Not according to this scripture!!

The rest of the story also tells of the problem that the man endured when he tried to explain his cure to his church and community, especially because he "had his surgery" on the sabbath!  He got kicked out of the church for something nice happening to him, and it doesn't even say he asked Jesus to do it that day. 

I think this is OUR scripture, and I intend to use it to respond to the next time I hear the "GOD does not make junk!" argument.  What do you think will happen if I do???   

can someone explain me what does this mean?
..God's works might be revealed in him.

I don't understand, is it like he is some "learning tool" to explain how thinks work?

Quote from: Medusa on June 29, 2011, 02:59:44 AM
can someone explain me what does this mean?
..God's works might be revealed in him.

I don't understand, is it like he is some "learning tool" to explain how thinks work?

Perhaps, being blind, losing a distraction from sight, will give him better opportunities for reflection.

But I really don't know and that's just a guess.

Personally, I don't get into arguments over the origins of the Gospels. Each seems to have its own attractions and interst.

Basically, crap happens-deal with it! I believe John is issuing a call to arms.

You can stigmatise people for something over which they have no control, or help them overcome it.

I Biblical times surgical means were limited, so the support of the community was the main means available to help the handicapped.  That meant a real need to be compassionate. I get the impression that there was no more around then then there is now.

The early Cristians seem to have been the exception, and I think there would have been intense social and family pressure on individual Christians to treat the less fortunate the way they had always been treated by society.  Basically that it was the victim's fault because of something they had done, in their makeup, or class.

Karen.

Quote from:  John 9 King James Version (KJV)

1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?

9Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

10Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?

11He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes,
     and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

12Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not.

13They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.

14And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

15Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.

16Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day.
     Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

17They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.

18But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight,
     until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.

19And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?

20His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:

21But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.

22These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already,
     that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.

23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

24Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.

25He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.

26Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?

27He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?

28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

30The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.

31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

32Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.

33If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.

34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

37And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Heather,
Great answer kiddo.

Heather, it's also interesting to note in that passage that Jesus used clay to form the man's eyes. What are we made of? Also, the name of the pool translates to "sent."

There's a lot of reasoning in life, even if it seems a burden at the time.

Thanks for pointing this out Vicky. Years ago someone had said I'd do a lot in life. That could certainly mean it is destined as whom I really am and not a facade. This can be said for everyone else. We're not mistakes.

Quote from: Vicky on June 29, 2011, 01:38:41 AM
... the next time I hear the "GOD does not make junk!" argument.

"The 'God does not make junk' argument?"

This is an argument? Of course god doesn't make junk; He/She made me exactly as intended, and I am not junk.

I'd be tempted to reply, "So someone other than God can create things? Hmm.  If I am a creation of Satan, then you are claiming that Satan is equal to God? Or has he superceded God, and should be worshipped instead? Blasphemy, Blasphemy!!"

I am dieing to try it out on some unsuspecting fundamentalist.

Karen.

Quote from: Medusa on June 29, 2011, 02:59:44 AM
can someone explain me what does this mean?
..God's works might be revealed in him.

I don't understand, is it like he is some "learning tool" to explain how thinks work?

A teacher i really like often speaks on a similar theme that might be related.

He says it's misguided for Christians to assume that because they belong to God that bad things won't happen in their lives. He points to the verse that says "the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike" and his argument is that the only way an unbeliever can "see god" in the believer is to see how that person deals with the bad things.

it makes sense to me because if you think about it, the most annoying believer their is is the person who's life is (apparently) all together and they go about saying "I love my life, thank god I'm so blessed!!!" and you have to wonder - would you still be singing that song if you got cancer or your house burned or whatever.

Which circles back around to say that whether the blind man was healed or not, the "works of God" which would be revealed in him is how God (or his faith in God at least) helps him deal with his situation.

Because obviously not every person born with a "defect" is healed.