Many people are agonising over the exact definition of Transgender, is 'transgender' merely a synonym of transsexual, an umbrella term, or a distinct category of its own within the gender community?     Personally - and this is just my opinion I am NOT saying that this should be YOUR opinion - I consider Transsexual and Transgender to be different from each other in essence, although there will inevitably be some overlap to varying individual degrees.   I consider myself to be Transgender and I define that in what may seem to others to be a rather idiosyncratic manner.    the way I accept and define myself works for me, and of course what works for me might not work for you, and that is my point.    I have tried to shoe-horn myself into what the general public defines as a transsexual which they get entirely from the medical/psychiatric community who have their own agendas. This  doesn't entirely work for me.   To avoid offence and risk making this thread controversial I won't use the medical/surgical or hormonal terms.  I will say that while I may agree with A I might not necessarily agree with B or C while agreeing upon D and thinking of E as going too far.

This whole post really boils down to two things (1) Define yourself for yourself.   (2)Accept other people's definition of themselves.   I have come to realise than human beings love, absolutely crave telling other people what to do, how to behave and how to think of themselves.    Define yourself, seek your own truth and don't crowbar yourself into anyone else's definition of what a transsexual, transgender, ->-bleeped-<-, androgyne should be.

There will be those reading this who will think 'that is all very well, but surely letting everyone define themselves will greatly undermine public accepts of us?   We must define our terms once and for all and enforce these definitions upon others.  Allowing a gender definition free-for-all would just confuse and alienate the public.'      This has a superficial appeal to it but enforcing a rigid definition upon the entire community for the sake of public acceptance won't work.     Nietzsche wrote that Free-spirits and Free-thinkers should never seek to convince what he called 'Bound Spirits'  of the validity and rightness of their opinions as the typical man and woman of our day is too enamoured with convention, not because they have thought about the matter and founded it wanting.     Bourgeois morality is founded upon fear which expresses itself in moral, social and physical timidity.     Also modern education and media information overload has brought about a distressing situation where many people  lack the ability to think things through logically and philosophically.    Everyone say after me ' I reserve the right to be complicated!'

I agree with all of the above !!!!!!!! ellen 

Quote from: eshaver on July 05, 2011, 07:00:25 PM
I agree with all of the above !!!!!!!! ellen 

I agree with Ellen

I don't like either term, though I have yet to come up with something better. I definitely agree with the other things you say though. Some people really do love trying to force their beliefs and definitions onto others, even when such can be objectively proven wrong or are too subjective to be relevant. Accept only your own definition of yourself.

  I use both terms.  As you can see by my avatar, I use "Transsexual" but I declare that I'm transgender.  Since that I am finally transitioning, I use "Transsexual" as my current status and "Transgender" as my condition.  I am not offended by either of those terms. 
  Joelene

I reserve the right to be complicated!

Julie

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 05, 2011, 05:32:08 PM

This whole post really boils down to two things (1) Define yourself for yourself.   (2)Accept other people's definition of themselves.   I have come to realise than human beings love, absolutely crave telling other people what to do, how to behave and how to think of themselves.    Define yourself, seek your own truth and don't crowbar yourself into anyone else's definition of what a transsexual, transgender, ->-bleeped-<-, androgyne should be.

Be good to yourself and to others as you'd have them do to you. Love it!!!

When I do lectures or guest speaking engagements, I use the word "transgender." It's just my personal preference as I don't care for "transsexual."

But, to each their own.

Bottom line of this whole transgender/transsexual debate is to use whatever term you want but don't preach it or proselytize it to others....and certainly don't make the other label user seem "not a real ts girl" because she doesn't use yours (I REALLY HATE THAT) LOL.

while there may be some overlap, I do not view them as synomous.  However, I also believe I have made my views clear in other threads related to the subject. 

I never was and never will consider myself as or having been 'transgendered.'  I also do not consider myself to presently be transsexual...although I did previously have a transsexual medical condition that was remedied via medical intervention. 

I'm biased towards transgender as a general overall term, since it's much more the normal word here in the UK (it's the "official" medical term here) and so people are more familiar with it as a concept - but when talking about myself, I avoid identity labels and talk about what's happening instead, by saying "I'm going through a gender transition" and only giving further details if required and as they apply to me specifically.

I've met people who are adamant that now that they've transitioned, they're no longer trans-anything. I've also met people for whom it's an important and happy part of their identity to describe themselves as trans even though they completed their transition decades ago. Both are fine with me.

I'm in the "words mean things" camp.

It's not for me about relative standing or relative rights and it's sure not about some long twisted sordid history of political machinations between warring camps over the last....15 years?

It's just - certain things are described in certain ways. one can call a penis an antler but ultimately it's a penis.

another infrequent visit by me.... 

i have just always seen trangender as pre op and transexual as post op.. but that said all in all i agree with the original post would be nice if the world would just refer to us as "her" and "she" but if i have to choose a tag it would be transgender even tho i still go out as a "guy", except to friends houses. i am she more and more and more and my wife is even now supporting my desire to start HRT properly. I have been using natural and herbal remedies to fix the body problem up til now...

does anyone use twitter? i recently started to use it and use the tag iamshe2011 if anyone wants to follow my ramblings

I personally believe this is an incredably important point, simply because how we define ourselves is how we deal with the world. If we can't deal with the world unitied, then the world will simply tear us apart.

I don't like the term transsexual since it implies that our motivation is sexual. I suggest our motivation is not sexual, it is social.

I'm really pleased for those that achieve any degrees of success, from taking the first step to self awareness, to the point of full transision and complete acceptance by those around you. I do fully understand that, when you have achieved th later, you prefer to put the past behind you, either to forget about it, or to treat it as a part of your past that is past.

But not everyone has had that degree of success.

I think more often then not it is fear of introperseptive analasis causes people to never delve deeper into there psyche then there surface emotions. By never knowing themselfs thay pass jugment on outsiders as a source of self enlightenment. I have come to the truth of Nietchze's "Of the camel, the lion, and the babe."

Quote from: spacial on July 08, 2011, 06:56:44 AM


I don't like the term transsexual since it implies that our motivation is sexual. I suggest our motivation is not sexual, it is social.

That is why I do not use the word transsexual either

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 08, 2011, 12:11:21 PM
If a transsexual person calls themsrlf transgender and then has surgeries, does that tell the public this is what transgender people do?

not in my experiences. When i explain I am transgender and tell them that it is an umbrella term for many different gender types but I simply prefer "transgender" it doesn't convey to those I talk to that everyone does the same thing I do.

If anything, the public is mostly confused on why they say one word to one TS/TG and the TS/TG gets offended but that same offending word to another TS/TG, that TS/TG is fine with.

It's our (TS/TG) internal debate of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable within our very own social and gender groups as a TS/TG people that confuses the public the most.

I didn't change my gender.  I changed my sex.  By the very nature of the medical intervention, there WAS a sexual component to what was done to remedy the birth defect.   

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 08, 2011, 12:57:43 PM
So a person having SRS to change their sex is not a transsexual?

yes they are. But so is a Post op transgender or a "woman" (in stealth who doesn't use the word transsexual, transgender, or anything other than woman)

Webster definition of transgender:
: of, relating to, or being a person who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

So in my opinion, one can use Transsexual or transgender. It doesn't matter.
The thing that does matter is be true to yourself.

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 08, 2011, 12:11:21 PM

If a transsexual person calls themsrlf transgender and then has surgeries, does that tell the public this is what transgender people do? Maybe for many transgender people, they dont approve of that portrayal and misrepresents them.

With respect Valerie, this is where you lose me completely.

Why would you want to tell anyone?

Why are you looking for a label?

The point of transgender is that it is an expression of solidarity and support for all of those struggling with their gender identity, however much or however successfully they have dealt with it.

I will hope that all those struggling can feel comfortable and free to discuss their problems and issues with those who understand. Susans' is a great place to do this, because we can all feel that anonimity we usually need and know there is no judgement.

As for the rest of society, all we need from them is acceptance that we are valid individuals who have a valid contribution to make to the world.

I come at this issue from an old-timer's perspective. Over the fourteen years I've come and gone at Susan's, one or another part of the community has rejected other parts. Early on, a lot of CDs didn't want TSs here. Later it was TSs who rejected CDs. Now this "Borg collective" idea is all the rage.

The constant in this, that I have always reached for, and I know that I am on the same page as Susan in this, is that Susan's is a place for every member of the trans-community, whether CD, TS, MtF, FtM, androgyn, TG, or other. And since the beginning of my time here "transgender" has been the term used to be inclusive of all those groups.

For those who want to erase that term and split up the community that has grown here and other places, remember that the conservative right has been using the "divide and conquer" strategy for a number of years. Do you really want to do their work for them?

And I identify with these terms: Woman, TS, MtF, and TG. None of them excludes the others.